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To: Russell Scott
And the motto: "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."

HUH? All the (for lack of a better word) "Heroes" in the bible were blood thristy tyrannts.

Just Look at Moses, Did you ever read the bible on what this guy did, He makes Saddam Hussien look like a pussycat. He is not a guy that goes along with good ole American values. After invading the Midianities (Numbers 31) and Amorites (Numbers 21) land unlike the USA with Germany, Japan, Iraq, etc. instead of rebuilding and helping out his fellow man he ordered the killing of all men, women and children except the virgin girls which he allowed (actually ordered) his solders to rape. So why on Earth would you people want a monument to this baby killer/child molester. It’s equivalent to having a monument to Hitler because he lowered unemployment and made the trains run on time

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796

10 posted on 08/21/2003 4:52:47 PM PDT by qam1
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To: qam1
W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion....Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. (Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments. (Source: Bernard C. Steiner, The Life and Correspondence of James McHenry (Cleveland: The Burrows Brothers, 1907), p. 475. In a letter from Charles Carroll to James McHenry of November 4, 1800.)

[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. Source: Benjamin Franklin, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Tappan, Whittemore and Mason, 1840), Vol. X, p. 297, April 17, 1787.

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric? (Source: George Washington, Address of George Washington, President of the United States . . . Preparatory to His Declination (Baltimore: George and Henry S. Keatinge), pp. 22-23. In his Farewell Address to the United States in 1796.)

13 posted on 08/21/2003 4:57:34 PM PDT by Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS
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To: qam1
Can we find any evidence that this nation was created "Under God"??

1ST AMENDMENT:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

(Ok, we aren't in violation of this....Congress hasn't declared that our nation is a Methodist nation or Presbyterian nation or Baptist nation or .....)

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Ooops....did they mean Congress couldn't pass any laws saying there were things we couldn't do regarding religious expression??

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.....

"IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our currency.

The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking."

JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, MONDAY APRIL 6, 1789

On motion,

Ordered, That leave be given to bring, in a bill to regulate the taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth article of the Constitution; and that Mr. White, Mr. Madison Mr. Trumbull, Mr. Gilman, and Mr. Cadwalader, do prepare and bring in the same.

On motion,

Resolve, That the form of the oath to be taken by the members of this Houses, as required by the third clause of the sixth article of the Constitution of Government of the United States, be as followeth, to wit: "I, A B a Representative of the United "States in the Congress thereof, do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) in "the presence of Almighty GOD, that I will support the Constitution of the United "States. So help me GOD."

LETTER FROM THE SENATE TO THE PRESIDENT IN RESPONSE TO HIS SPEECH:

We commend you, sir, to the protection of Almighty God, earnestly beseeching him long to preserve a life so valuable and dear to the people of the United States, and that your administration may be prosperous to the nation, and glorious to yourself.

In Senate, May 16, 1789.

Read and accepted; and

Ordered, That, the Vice President should affix his signature to the address in behalf of the Senate.

THE SENATE proceeded to consider the resolve of the House of Representatives of the 25th instant, to wit:

"In the House of Representatives of the United States,

"September 25th, 1789.

Resolved, That a joint committee of both Houses be appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States, a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed, by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a constitution of government for their safety and happiness.

"Ordered, That Messrs. Boudinot, Sherman, and Sylvester, be appointed of the said committee on the part of this House."

Resolved, That the Senate do concur in the above recited resolution, and that Messrs. Johnson and Izard, be the Committee on the part of the Senate.

Ordered, That the Secretary do carry a message to the House of Representatives accordingly;

Journals of the Continental Congress SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 1777:

The committee appointed to prepare a recommendation to these states, to set apart a day of thanksgiving, brought in a report; which was agreed to as follows: Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received, and to implore such farther blessings as they stand in need of; and it having pleased him in his abundant mercy not only to continue to us the innumerable bounties of his common providence, but also to smile upon us in the prosecution of a just and necessary war, for the defence and establishment of our unalienable rights and liberties; particularly in that he hath been pleased in so great a measure to prosper the means used for the support of our troops and to crown our arms with most signal success: It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States, to set apart Thursday, the eighteenth day of December next, for solemn thanksgivin g and praise; that with one heart and one voice the good people may express the grateful feelings of their hearts, and consecrate themselves to the service of their divine benefactor; and that together with their sincere acknowledgments and offerings, they may join the penitent confession of their manifold sins, whereby they had forfeited every favour, and their humble and earnest supplication that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance ; that it may please him graciously to afford his blessing on the governments of these states respectively, and prosper the public council of the whole; to inspire our commanders both by land and sea, and all under them, with that wisdom and fortitude which may render them fit instruments, under the providence of Almighty God, to secure for these United States the greatest of all human blessings, independence and peace; that it may please him to prosper the trade and manufactures of the people and the labour of the husbandman, that our land may yet yield its increase; to take schools and seminaries of education, so necessary for cultivating the principles of true liberty, virtue and piety, under his nurturing hand, and to prosper the means of religion for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth "in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." [Note 1: 1 The original read: "That at one time and with one voice."] And it is further recommended, that servile labour, and such recreation as, though at other times innocent, may be unbecoming the purpose of this appointment, be omitted on so solemn an occasion.2

[Note 2: 2 This report, in the writing of Samuel Adams, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 24, folio 431.]

MY ALL TIME FAVORITE on this issue was this email I received: Dennis Miller!! He said recently on his show, regarding the judges who declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional:

"So, Your Honor, the Pledge is unconstitutional because it says 'Under God'. Guess that means when you were sworn in with your hand on a Bible, and at the end of your oath repeated, 'So Help Me God' that makes your job unconstitutional! Therefore you have no job, which means your ruling doesn't mean a thing."

In the Jefferson Manuscripts in the Library of Congress are two notes of suggestion on the Great Seal. One in the writing of Franklin, and the other in that of Jefferson.

Franklin's note reads: "Moses [in the Dress of High Priest] standing on the Shore, and e xtending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharoah who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, [expressing] to express that he acts by [the] Command of the Deity. "Motto, Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."

The note of Jefferson reads: "Pharoah sitting in an open chariot, a crown on his head and a sword in his hand passing thro' the divided waters of the Red sea in pursuit of the Israelites: rays from a pillar of fire in the cloud, expressive of the divine presence, [reach] and command, reaching to Moses who stands on the shore and, extending his hand over the sea, causes it to over whelm Pharoah. "Motto. Rebellion to tyrants is obedce to god." Words in brackets were stricken out by the pen. Jefferson merely noted a version of the Franklin suggestion. In the Writings of Jefferson (Ford), I, 420 is what purports to be a scheme of arms made in 1774, but the date assigned to it is doubtful.

In a letter from John Adams to his wife, written August 14, 1776, he said: "Doctor F. proposes a device for a seal. Moses lifting up his wand, and dividing the red sea, and Pharoah in his chariot over whelmed with the waters. This motto. 'Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.' "Mr. Jefferson proposed, The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night--and on the other side, Hengist and Horsa, the Saxon chiefs, from whom we claim the honor of being descended, and whose political principles and form of government we have assumed.

If you read through the minutes of the historical beginnings of our country, you'll come to the conclusion that all these founding fathers would be facing lawsuits today of being in violation of the very documents they created. What is wrong with this picture?

14 posted on 08/21/2003 4:57:55 PM PDT by Russell Scott (The whole creation groans in pain waiting for the manifestation of Christ's Kingdom)
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To: qam1

15 posted on 08/21/2003 4:58:57 PM PDT by Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS
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To: qam1
Those attacking Christianity sometimes point to the many religious wars and atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christ and the Church. They forget that not everyone self-labelled 'Christian' truly follows Christ. Also, that many times more people have been killed this century, most by their own governments, than in all religious conflicts, ever.1 And this slaughter happened because of philosophies openly hostile to biblical Christianity, and flowing directly from evolutionary belief. About 130 million (not including the hundreds of millions killed by abortion) were slaughtered this century in the name of atheism, whereas all those killed in 'the name of Christ' in all of recorded history was at most around 17 million. See James Kennedy and Jerry Newcombe, What if Jesus had never been born? Thomas Nelson, Nashville, 1994. The blood-stained 'century of evolution'

The rule actually is that when we remove God from the equation, when we act and live as if we have no one to answer to but ourselves, and if there is no God, then the rule of law is social Darwinism-- the strong rule the weak. We'll find that, quite to the contrary, it is not Christianity and the belief in the God of the Bible that results in carnage and genocide. But it's when people reject the God of the Bible that we are most vulnerable to those kinds of things that we see in history that are the radical and gross destruction of human lives. Stand to Reason Commentary - The Real Murderers: Atheism or ...

17 posted on 08/21/2003 5:01:15 PM PDT by Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS
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To: qam1
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."


That is not a Quote from George Washington and you know it.
You are somewhat of a liar.
28 posted on 08/21/2003 6:03:35 PM PDT by bluecollarman
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