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To: qam1
Can we find any evidence that this nation was created "Under God"??

1ST AMENDMENT:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

(Ok, we aren't in violation of this....Congress hasn't declared that our nation is a Methodist nation or Presbyterian nation or Baptist nation or .....)

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Ooops....did they mean Congress couldn't pass any laws saying there were things we couldn't do regarding religious expression??

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.....

"IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our currency.

The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking."

JOURNAL OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, MONDAY APRIL 6, 1789

On motion,

Ordered, That leave be given to bring, in a bill to regulate the taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth article of the Constitution; and that Mr. White, Mr. Madison Mr. Trumbull, Mr. Gilman, and Mr. Cadwalader, do prepare and bring in the same.

On motion,

Resolve, That the form of the oath to be taken by the members of this Houses, as required by the third clause of the sixth article of the Constitution of Government of the United States, be as followeth, to wit: "I, A B a Representative of the United "States in the Congress thereof, do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) in "the presence of Almighty GOD, that I will support the Constitution of the United "States. So help me GOD."

LETTER FROM THE SENATE TO THE PRESIDENT IN RESPONSE TO HIS SPEECH:

We commend you, sir, to the protection of Almighty God, earnestly beseeching him long to preserve a life so valuable and dear to the people of the United States, and that your administration may be prosperous to the nation, and glorious to yourself.

In Senate, May 16, 1789.

Read and accepted; and

Ordered, That, the Vice President should affix his signature to the address in behalf of the Senate.

THE SENATE proceeded to consider the resolve of the House of Representatives of the 25th instant, to wit:

"In the House of Representatives of the United States,

"September 25th, 1789.

Resolved, That a joint committee of both Houses be appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States, a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed, by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a constitution of government for their safety and happiness.

"Ordered, That Messrs. Boudinot, Sherman, and Sylvester, be appointed of the said committee on the part of this House."

Resolved, That the Senate do concur in the above recited resolution, and that Messrs. Johnson and Izard, be the Committee on the part of the Senate.

Ordered, That the Secretary do carry a message to the House of Representatives accordingly;

Journals of the Continental Congress SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 1777:

The committee appointed to prepare a recommendation to these states, to set apart a day of thanksgiving, brought in a report; which was agreed to as follows: Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received, and to implore such farther blessings as they stand in need of; and it having pleased him in his abundant mercy not only to continue to us the innumerable bounties of his common providence, but also to smile upon us in the prosecution of a just and necessary war, for the defence and establishment of our unalienable rights and liberties; particularly in that he hath been pleased in so great a measure to prosper the means used for the support of our troops and to crown our arms with most signal success: It is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive powers of these United States, to set apart Thursday, the eighteenth day of December next, for solemn thanksgivin g and praise; that with one heart and one voice the good people may express the grateful feelings of their hearts, and consecrate themselves to the service of their divine benefactor; and that together with their sincere acknowledgments and offerings, they may join the penitent confession of their manifold sins, whereby they had forfeited every favour, and their humble and earnest supplication that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance ; that it may please him graciously to afford his blessing on the governments of these states respectively, and prosper the public council of the whole; to inspire our commanders both by land and sea, and all under them, with that wisdom and fortitude which may render them fit instruments, under the providence of Almighty God, to secure for these United States the greatest of all human blessings, independence and peace; that it may please him to prosper the trade and manufactures of the people and the labour of the husbandman, that our land may yet yield its increase; to take schools and seminaries of education, so necessary for cultivating the principles of true liberty, virtue and piety, under his nurturing hand, and to prosper the means of religion for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth "in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost." [Note 1: 1 The original read: "That at one time and with one voice."] And it is further recommended, that servile labour, and such recreation as, though at other times innocent, may be unbecoming the purpose of this appointment, be omitted on so solemn an occasion.2

[Note 2: 2 This report, in the writing of Samuel Adams, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 24, folio 431.]

MY ALL TIME FAVORITE on this issue was this email I received: Dennis Miller!! He said recently on his show, regarding the judges who declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional:

"So, Your Honor, the Pledge is unconstitutional because it says 'Under God'. Guess that means when you were sworn in with your hand on a Bible, and at the end of your oath repeated, 'So Help Me God' that makes your job unconstitutional! Therefore you have no job, which means your ruling doesn't mean a thing."

In the Jefferson Manuscripts in the Library of Congress are two notes of suggestion on the Great Seal. One in the writing of Franklin, and the other in that of Jefferson.

Franklin's note reads: "Moses [in the Dress of High Priest] standing on the Shore, and e xtending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharoah who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, [expressing] to express that he acts by [the] Command of the Deity. "Motto, Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."

The note of Jefferson reads: "Pharoah sitting in an open chariot, a crown on his head and a sword in his hand passing thro' the divided waters of the Red sea in pursuit of the Israelites: rays from a pillar of fire in the cloud, expressive of the divine presence, [reach] and command, reaching to Moses who stands on the shore and, extending his hand over the sea, causes it to over whelm Pharoah. "Motto. Rebellion to tyrants is obedce to god." Words in brackets were stricken out by the pen. Jefferson merely noted a version of the Franklin suggestion. In the Writings of Jefferson (Ford), I, 420 is what purports to be a scheme of arms made in 1774, but the date assigned to it is doubtful.

In a letter from John Adams to his wife, written August 14, 1776, he said: "Doctor F. proposes a device for a seal. Moses lifting up his wand, and dividing the red sea, and Pharoah in his chariot over whelmed with the waters. This motto. 'Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.' "Mr. Jefferson proposed, The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night--and on the other side, Hengist and Horsa, the Saxon chiefs, from whom we claim the honor of being descended, and whose political principles and form of government we have assumed.

If you read through the minutes of the historical beginnings of our country, you'll come to the conclusion that all these founding fathers would be facing lawsuits today of being in violation of the very documents they created. What is wrong with this picture?

14 posted on 08/21/2003 4:57:55 PM PDT by Russell Scott (The whole creation groans in pain waiting for the manifestation of Christ's Kingdom)
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To: Russell Scott
The U.S. Constitution is a secular document. It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art. VI), and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). It doesn't say Freedom of religion but only if you rigorously follow one of our acceptable Christian religions.

The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution does not contain the phrase "So help me God" or any requirement to swear on a bible. If we are a Christian nation, why doesn't our Constitution say so? I believe Teddy Roosevelt didn't say "So help me God", Was he somehow not really the President because he didn't?

The words "under God," did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954 when Congress inserted them. Likewise "In God We Trust" was absent from paper currency before 1956. Yeah it appeared on some coins earlier but so did other phrases such as "Mind Your Business." The U.S. motto, chosen by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson is E Pluribus Unum ("Of Many, One") celebrating plurality not theocracy.

But let's Flip it around

I keep hearing that this country is founded on Christian Principles but can someone please tell me where in the bible is there anything resembling our form of government with our liberties?

There are no Constitution Republics/Democracies in the Bible, The bible is full of kings and blood thirsty tyrants like Moses and Joshua. The closest thing to us was the Romans and according to the bible they were the bad guys

And it can be argued that the roots of our form of government only arose because the Black Plauge which decimated Europe broke the hold of the Church.


31 posted on 08/21/2003 6:13:07 PM PDT by qam1
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To: Russell Scott
THANK YOU! I appreciate your wisdom here, and I don't have patience with them that you have. Maybe I could take a lesson from you, but I think what you have said is very valid and I want you to know that.
71 posted on 08/22/2003 4:55:58 AM PDT by MarthaNOStewart
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