Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

IBM lays off 15,000, HP 1300 [Outsourcing]
The Register ^ | 8/21/2003 | Andrew Orlowski

Posted on 08/21/2003 9:44:06 AM PDT by ZeitgeistSurfer

Veteran IBM-watchers know how testing it is to read one of the company's financial statements. In the early days of the cold war, Churchill described the Soviet Union as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma". But compared to earnings releases from companies such as Apple and Sun - who provide terse and lucid declarations - you can be forgiven for thinking of IBM's announcements as a cloud wrapped in a fog containing a temporary heat-haze.

However, this much is clear: IBM has shed 15,000 jobs in the past quarter: 1400 from the microelectronics division and a staggering "14,213 Global Services personnel" in response to "the recent decline in corporate spending on technology-related services". To balance the books, IBM also bunged its recent acquisition, PwC, by almost $400 million.

In an SEC filing posted last week, IBM maintained that demand was strong. So strong, it had to conduct a private pogrom in its own services division. Clearly, something doesn't add up - even by IBM's own admission.

Perhaps an email from a soon-to-be redundant HP employee to The Register sheds some light on the situation. HP announced earnings this week that fell below expectations and added that it would make 1,300 "unexpected" human sacrifices to cover the shortfall. In contrast to previous "sheddings" of fluff in the "labor market", the middle class now feels the pain.

"Sorry but I'm due in early Sunday to train my replacement in Bangalore," the (almost) ex-HPer explained. "It's because of the time difference."

Offshore drilling

Hidden beneath the already hard-to-find news of job cuts is a massive transfer of IT resources to India and China. While only a few years ago we were promised a "Long Boom" of infinite prosperity, by "gurus" such as Wired executive Kevin Kelly, it now appears that every tech job can be cut or outsourced with impunity. Kelly is never happier, by his own admission, than when he's lying down in Pacifica dreaming of insects.

For the rest of us, needs are rather more pressing.

Not to appear to be picking on IBM or HP in particular, there doesn't seem to be a tech job left that's safe.

This has yet to emerge as an election issue, although it represents an assault on middle class expectations that's unparalleled in peacetime. But it is important and needs some context.

As the world's largest democracy, and with a philosophical and scientific tradition that (outside the Muslim world) is second to none, India has every reason to look upon the recent occidental outbreak of what we call "capitalism" as a temporary aberration.

It's worth nothing that in common with his fellow Victorian political economists, Marx found the oriental model so strange that he excluded it from his theories entirely.

But outbreaks of tech independence abound. The People's Republic of China has shown both a cavalier disregard for Western IP (aka "intellectual property") and boasts a proud confidence that its own homegrown talent can transform a pay-for "IP" import into an indigenous social resource. [See Trade Wars II: China shuns Qualcomm - no CDMA tax! - EU frets over China's 3G plan and Motorola gambles big on Linux, Sinocapitalism for more details].

Given China's astonishing historical legacy of engineering excellence, this is far from foolish. Dammit, weren't our kids supposed to bring home the bacon?

On this side of the Gulf, we're sure to hear cries of anguish, as the parents of expensively educated middle-class kids learn that their investment (and, in the US, this can be upwards of $120,000 per child) has gone offshore.

Which brings us to a particularly anxious conundrum. The prosperity that we felt was assured, and by rights, ours in the West no longer belongs to us. Those college dollars look like a poor investment, when a cleverer Indian can perform the same task for a tenth of the salary. So why did we spend all that money? Who, at what point, added enough "value" to justify the investment?

It's a good question. In a historical perspective the Indian, Muslim and Chinese engineers whose forefathers created so much of this intellectual infastructure are only reaping their due rewards. For Western kids, however, this does seem a bum deal. "Weren't we supposed to be clever[-er] than everyone else?" a recent graduate asked me recently. Well, er, actually no.

Smarts is as smarts gets.

Forget your O'Reilly PERL course, and follow the money. A course in Mandarin or Arabic is probably the shrewdest investment a parent can make right now.

Go west, my son... and then keep going

The inexorable logic of digital capitalism has rewarded companies such as Dell, which add no value, and pare costs to the bone, and ruthlessly punished systems companies such as Sun and Apple, which invest in R&D. For reasons best known to themselves, these companies invest in the hard stuff that can't easily be commoditised. Logic suggests that such companies are the bulwark against copy-cat Oriental opportunism.

While you might think much of the above is facetious, the West faces a very real problem: we have a surfeit of well educated kids who, if we accept the orthodoxies of asset-stripping capitalism, simply can't compete with foreign competitors without tilting the playing field.

When capitalism went digital, the first casualties were manual laborers. Now that skilled engineering jobs are being transferred offshore, the middle class is in the firing line, and this poses a very real crisis for a large and not-entirely unimportant section of society. Go to college, learn tech skills and - oops, sorry - you're job has just gone offshore. Please accept this redundancy slip and some small token that your worthless (hard-earned) contribution has enriched the global economy. Or as the creepier types insist, the global "eco-system".

Technology once promised us vistas of endless prosperity, and saw itself aloof from the obligations of political economy or globalisation. Now these pigeons are coming home to roost, and "technology" is more of a liability than it is a blessing.

It's dry, academic stuff to be sure. But when jobs are being lost on such an extraordinary scale, scarcely reported, is there a politician bold enough even to raise the issue?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News
KEYWORDS: hp; ibm; outsourcing
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 361-370 next last
To: LibertyAndJusticeForAll
The number of IBM jobs here in the Triangle is 100%. The suits said so. (And they'll probably be next.)
181 posted on 08/21/2003 11:13:47 AM PDT by warchild9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: LibertyAndJusticeForAll
Where in THIS article does it say they will replace those jobs with overseas work?

182 posted on 08/21/2003 11:13:50 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: harpseal
Yes, sir, I've read that and it makes a lot of sense IF
there is the political will. I'm not a trade expert but your points seem viable.

However, which politician would even think about broaching this topic?
183 posted on 08/21/2003 11:14:29 AM PDT by swarthyguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: Tokhtamish
You cannot have a "might makes right" world view and still be any kind of sincere Christian.

Really? Go read Augustine. I've read thousands of pages of Augustine and agree with basically all of it. I disagree with most the few things of Ayn Rand that I've read.

184 posted on 08/21/2003 11:15:36 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (I will not rest until every "little man" is destroyed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
We will keep things on shore that require user interface in order to accomplish.

What size vest are you?


185 posted on 08/21/2003 11:16:45 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (Willie Green for President...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: warchild9
Actually, the average per capita income in the 60's was SIX times what it is today, taking into consideration tax increases

This is just flat out false. I documented the official government statistics on per capita after-tax income from 1960-2002 in post #164. Please refute that instead of just spewing lies.

186 posted on 08/21/2003 11:18:10 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (I will not rest until every "little man" is destroyed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: Tokhtamish
"Are you dimly aware that a non-high school graduate in a good union factory job with seniority in 1960 could buy a house, have health insurance, go away on paid vacation, send a child to college, and retire on a pension ? And all on one paycheck ? How many college graduates can do that now ?"

I am not a college graduate and I've never made more than 20K for a years paycheck in my life nor has Mrs. Dawgg. She didn't go to college either. I have bought and sold 4 houses, currently own one and looking for a beach rental/vacation house, and I just got back from vacation. Further my 8 year old daughter has a growing college fund, and my retirement plan is on course to go well above 700k by the time I reach retirement age.

187 posted on 08/21/2003 11:18:26 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz; Texas_Dawg
Unless we do something differently, fat chance.

The problem is and the trend is, everyone who wants, competes for our markets but they don't open their markets to us. We are the only ones being open here.

Whats more is very VERY few are realistically trying to develop markets elsewhere.

If there is one carrot, but 20 people fighting over it, realistically what ends up happening? Does everyone end up getting a nibble? The real solution is to get more carrots, which we are not doing.

In terms of economics those who bring carrots should eat carrots, and if you want we can trade. If you don't have a carrot to offer...then no dice.

It ain't happening though.

188 posted on 08/21/2003 11:19:45 AM PDT by maui_hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawgg
I am not a college graduate and I've never made more than 20K for a years paycheck in my life nor has Mrs. Dawgg. She didn't go to college either. I have bought and sold 4 houses, currently own one and looking for a beach rental/vacation house, and I just got back from vacation. Further my 8 year old daughter has a growing college fund, and my retirement plan is on course to go well above 700k by the time I reach retirement age.

We're all doomed. Vote Democratic or Pat Buchanan.

189 posted on 08/21/2003 11:19:54 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (I will not rest until every "little man" is destroyed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: CJ Wolf
"... soon india won't be able to support the primary language of the US, which will be spanish."

It is so outrageously true. Right now in California an English speaking American citizen with a high-school diploma cannot get a job at most janitorial, construction, restaurant, hotel, cannery or fast food crews. Also, teachers, customer service reps, sales reps, etc. are preferred bilingual.
So, I guess, they will begin outsourcing to Latin & South America soon.
190 posted on 08/21/2003 11:20:00 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: RedBloodedAmerican
Here is the article describing the referenced layoffs. Late in the text, HP notes it is building up its workforces in low cost areas such as Poland, Costa Rica, the Philippines, China and India. Wayman noted that HP already has 8,000 employees in India.

The cuts are in the U.S., the hires are in low cost areas.

191 posted on 08/21/2003 11:21:00 AM PDT by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: RedBloodedAmerican
Don't see it in this article, but it isn't that hard to figure out where the jobs are going.


HP accused of hiring cheap labour
HPQ's Indian takeaway
HP/Compaq offshore move costs 1,200 US jobs
How HP totally lost the support plot
192 posted on 08/21/2003 11:21:15 AM PDT by lelio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: ZeitgeistSurfer
India & Red China: "All your jobs are belong to us." B-P
193 posted on 08/21/2003 11:21:21 AM PDT by Nowhere Man ("Laws are the spider webs through which the big bugs fly past and the little ones get caught.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas_Dawg
"We're all doomed. Vote Democratic or Pat Buchanan."

GO PAT, GO!

(Far Away!)

194 posted on 08/21/2003 11:22:32 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: Texas_Dawg
Today there is a bunch more stuff that people have today than in the 60's. If you stripped your lifestyle down to the level of the normal 60's household, you could probably live fairly well on a meager income.
195 posted on 08/21/2003 11:23:12 AM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: Texas_Dawg; Lazamataz
"We're all doomed."

Someone said we are all gonna die... Is this true?

196 posted on 08/21/2003 11:23:46 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: warchild9
Yeah, I know what your talking about. I'm a programmer for Blue Cross in Durham and we're all stressed right now about it. I came out of the textile industry and retrained in programming. Looks like I may have to retrain again in something else. Wonder how much training it takes to mix paint at Home Depot. LOL.
197 posted on 08/21/2003 11:23:58 AM PDT by holdmuhbeer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: maui_hawaii
The problem is and the trend is, everyone who wants, competes for our markets but they don't open their markets to us. We are the only ones being open here.

You bet! Why don't people see that???

198 posted on 08/21/2003 11:24:15 AM PDT by Lazamataz (I have decided that I will follow the free trade policy of the most recent person who posts to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator
Today there is a bunch more stuff that people have today than in the 60's. If you stripped your lifestyle down to the level of the normal 60's household, you could probably live fairly well on a meager income.

You mean, we're not all doomed??? You's one a them, ain't ya?!?

199 posted on 08/21/2003 11:24:17 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg (I will not rest until every "little man" is destroyed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Texas_Dawg
Mr. troll, government statistics are the biggest lies in the world. The CPI is manipulated to maintain a certain level in pensions and benefits, and I was talking about taxes at all levels, including hidden taxes and fees.
200 posted on 08/21/2003 11:25:11 AM PDT by warchild9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 161-180181-200201-220 ... 361-370 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson