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Someone sent this to me to have a look at. I wanted to get some opinions as to the validity of these assertions.
1 posted on 08/20/2003 2:27:10 PM PDT by jmstein7
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To: jmstein7
if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination

Is this the basis for the right of self determination? "Genuine ethnic identity?" If so, how do Americans have a right to self determination?

2 posted on 08/20/2003 2:30:00 PM PDT by Huck
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To: jmstein7
The assertions are valid. Let them respond to them one at a time. Historically the area was peopled by a variety of nomadic tribes. Israel clearly has a history that goes back thousands of years in this area. The liberal News Media denies this of course. Archaelogy supports it.
3 posted on 08/20/2003 2:33:30 PM PDT by dvan (Korean vet!)
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To: jmstein7
It's 100% correct. The 'Palestinean people' are an invention of the PLO and cannot be distinguished in any significant way from Arabs in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia.
4 posted on 08/20/2003 2:36:03 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Are we conservatives, or are we Republicans?)
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To: jmstein7
Israel has bought into the reality of "Palestine". I feel no special need to prevent people from cutting their own throats, if they feel that this is the best way to conduct the business of their nation.

Look what happened yesterday. After that, why is Arafat and his henchmen still alive? Why are those people who call themselves Palestinian and who live to murder Israelis still allowed to remain on Israeli territory?

The people of Israel have made a rational, mature, but fatal decision to let themselves be destroyed in the name of peace. So be it.

6 posted on 08/20/2003 2:44:06 PM PDT by Batrachian
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To: jmstein7
Did you know these important facts?


• The Jewish people existed 2000 years before the establishment of Islam.

• Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital for over 3,300 years, and was never an Arab or Muslim capital.

• Jerusalem is mentioned 700 times in the Bible, while the Koran does not contain a single reference to Jerusalem.

• There has been a Jewish Majority in Jerusalem since before 1850.

• The Jewish People pray facing Jerusalem, while the Arabs pray with their backs to Jerusalem, in the direction of Mecca.

• The PLO was established in 1964 while eastern Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) were under their control. Rather than establishing a political entity out of the this, the PLO used the territory as a base of attack with the aim of "liberating" the rest of Israel.

• The Arabs have 500 times more land mass than Israel.

• The Arabs have 21 states; The Jews have only one Homeland.

http://www.moledet.org/didyouknow.html

THERE IS A PALESTINIAN STATE – IT IS JORDAN

JORDAN IS PALESTINE
In 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration calling for the creation of a Jewish Homeland in all of Mandate Palestine – the Biblical Land of Israel. This Promise was broken when the British handed the eastern bank of the Jordan River to the Hashemite of Saudi Arabia in 1922. This land was to eventually be called Jordan.

Today, Israel (including Judea, Samaria & Gaza) constitutes 24% of the area designated for the Jewish homeland. Jordan comprises 76% of Mandate Palestine – Biblical Land of Israel and has a 70% Palestinian Arab majority.

THE LATE KING HUSSEIN OF JORDAN, 1981:
"The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan."

Palestinian people do not exist.

A provocative headline? It's more than that. It's the truth.

Truth does not change. Truth is truth. If something was true 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, it is still true today.

And the truth is that only 30 years ago, there was very little confusion on this issue of Palestine.

You might remember the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir making the bold political statement: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people."

The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir's "racism." They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false – an intentional lie, a strategic deception.

What they don't like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth – that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.

So, despite the fact that conventional wisdom has now proclaimed that there is such a thing as the Palestinian people, I'm going to raise those uncomfortable quotations made by Arafat and his henchmen when their public-relations guard was down.

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:



The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.



That's pretty clear, isn't it? It's even more specific than Golda Meir's statement. It reaffirms what I have written on this subject. And it is hardly the only such statement of its kind. Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993. It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.

In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. Here's what he said: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."

No matter how many people convince themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves.

I've said it before and I will say it again, in the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.

Why now has it become such a critical priority?

The answer is because of a massive deception campaign and relentless terrorism over 40 years.

Golda Meir was right. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.

Israel and the West must not surrender to terrorism by granting the killers just what they want – a public relations triumph and a strategic victory. It's not too late to say no to terrorism. It's not too late to say no to another Arab terror state. It's not too late to tell the truth about Palestine.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28222


7 posted on 08/20/2003 2:44:51 PM PDT by Weimdog
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To: jmstein7
The point the writer is trying to make is that there are a number of specific assertions one might make about a country which logically followed result in a belief that a country exists. Else, absent one or more of them, it does not exist.

To a degree most of this particular writer's piece comes from a barrage of anti-semitic literature written mostly in the 1800s for the purpose of discrediting Jews (a people having some claim to "nationhood" through a 1900 year period where they had no specific country.)

Antisemitic trash recycled to trash someone else is still trash.

The cold, hard facts of nationhood is that countries are formed all the time, and sometimes they are disposed of, or merged with others. Some "nations", for example the Sami, never founded a state. Even the Roma have done that from time to time, but the Sami didn't. Other nations have formed ruling governments that lasted a thousand years (I am thinking of Venice, which holds humanity's record for state duration).

If you had been a regular FreeRepublic reader you would know that this particular issue, with pretty much the same predicatory statement, has been discussed here many times. It will raise anti-Palestinian and anti-Jewish noise again, as it has in the past. By now you should recognize that it's not the sort of thing that is going to lead anybody to a peaceful settlement of the situation in the area.

8 posted on 08/20/2003 2:52:54 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jmstein7
read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963624202/qid=1061417824/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-0462146-6143115

from Amazon's first review:

"For all those who feel the arab version of events in the middle east and their obsession with hate towards the Jews is justified please read this wonderful account of the true history of the region. Peters began her work trying to find the roots of the refugee problem and instead discovered the secret history the arabs dont want you to know. Namely that 800,000 jews were forced to flee Arab countries where they had been persecuted, raped, forced to work on the sabbath and degraded in other ways. Compared to what the jews suffered under arab rule the arabs under isreali rule are kings, masters of their own destiny..."

12 posted on 08/20/2003 3:23:00 PM PDT by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: jmstein7
“Palestine” is not a country and never has been; “Palestinians” are not a distinct race or culture, and the “west bank” (Judea) is not their ancestral homeland. Philistia (the ancient Greek name from which Palestine is derived) was part of the Ottoman Empire until WWI, after which jurisdiction was assigned to Britain by the League of Nations. In 1917, Britain designated a portion of the land for the Jewish people, whose homeland it had been for 2000 years. Thereupon the Arabs began their original jihad, causing such turmoil that finally in 1947 the United Nations capitulated to Arab demands and asked the Jews to give the area west of the Jordan River (hence the name “west bank”) to the Arabs. The Jews agreed, declared their independence in 1948, and were invaded that same day by several Arab nations, led by the Trans-Jordanian kingdom which took over the west bank and occupied it for 19 years. Until then, the term Palestinian referred to anyone from this area – the Jews were the original Palestinians! Arabs realized the advantage of a discrete political identity and began using the term to create an image of themselves as the only rightful inhabitants.

In the defensive 1967 war, Israel recaptured the west bank, and Jews began returning to the land where they had lived for millennia (excluding the period when their homes and temples were destroyed during Jordanian occupation). The “Palestinian People” now demanding their “liberation” are really Arabs who do not fit into boundary lines created by foreign powers (for European interests) almost a century ago. This could be remedied if the “Arab brothers” gave Palestinians anything more than “refugee” status in their countries. But then those rich Arab autocracies would have no “middle east conflict” to fuel the hatred of their oppressed people – or to talk about on American television to divert attention from terrorism and other critical issues concerning Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

The so-called Israeli-Palestinian conflict is only a microcosm of the real battle: an Islamic holy war against Western political and economic freedoms. This war is backed by several Arab states whose motivation is preserving their own despotism. Palestinians are pawns in this war, religion is merely its tool, and liberation its futile rallying cry. The ”situation in the Middle East” is not a remote struggle thousands of miles away – it is America’s own fight. Israel is on the front lines of the war America has only recently been forced to join. Let us not abandon her. We’re next in line.
16 posted on 08/20/2003 4:06:28 PM PDT by enuu
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To: jmstein7
Good. Bookmarking.
18 posted on 08/20/2003 4:54:21 PM PDT by BunnySlippers
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To: jmstein7
I pretty much share her "Japanese View" of the palestinians, I can't say how many Japanese agree.
26 posted on 08/20/2003 6:31:42 PM PDT by hasegawasama
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To: jmstein7
ping
28 posted on 08/20/2003 8:32:35 PM PDT by CGVet58 (Evil flourishes when good men stand by and do nothing)
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To: jmstein7
BANG!
31 posted on 08/20/2003 10:21:33 PM PDT by King Prout (people hear and do not listen, see and do not observe, speak without thought, post and not edit)
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