Carelessness and Casualness in worship

The Middletown Bible Church ^ | 08/19/03 | various authors

[PleaseNoMore]

You admonish us to "look" the part yet you have failed to define what the part should look like. NOWHERE in scripture does it define what looking the part is yet we hear many times in scripture that we are to LIVE the part.

So I ask, are we to look like our Christian brothers and sisters in Africa? How about China? Sudan perhaps? If you are saying that we should wear suits and ties and dresses and heels because that is what God requires of us to come into His presence then perhaps you need to prayerfully rethink your position for not all cultures dress the same yet there are many within all cultures who love the Lord with their whole hearts. Some so much that they are literally sacrificing for it with their lives.

Surely you are aware that many of our brothers and sisters are undergoing horrible persecution for the faith. We certainly don't need persecution over such a trivial matter from within our own "house".

[PleaseNoMore]

Excellent reply.

[Elsie]

I respect and honor my wife dearly. What I wear in front of her depends on the context, and on what I want to communicate to her (and others). Sometimes I dress up very nicely for her, and she loves it. Sometimes I walk around the house in underwear, and she loves it. Sometimes it's jeans and a t-shirt. Context. Even though I'm "underdressed," she understands that I love and respect her.

My relationship with the Lord is similar, in a way. I am His bride (or perhaps, more technically correct, I'm a member of His bride, the Church). He knows I love him, regardless of what I wear. Sometimes the context calls for dressing up. Sometimes the context allows me to dress down. But, as many others have mentioned, it's the "heart" more than the "flesh" that should be the issue.

Very good illustration!

[Elsie]

I don't have time to read all of this, but I can tell you that I do NOT dress up to show respect. I dress up when -- and only when -- it is the norm and seems to be expected of me, especially by my wife. If I wear jeans and decent church to shirt I am not disrespecting my pastor or the Lord. I seriously don't think the Lord gives one gosh darn.

1 Corinthians 9:18-24
 18.  What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.
 19.  Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
 20.  To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
 21.  To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.
 22.  To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
 23.  I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
 24.  Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

 

It appears that Paul would fit in in ANY crowd or one on one.

[Elsie]

Edwards IIRC had some interesting theories about Satan. That this now-fallen angel was originally intended to be the savior of mankind, but since he dropped out of heaven, Jesus had to do the job.

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THIS is straight out of Mormonism: 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints'

[Theo]

THIS is straight out of Mormonism: 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints'

Please look over the posts that HiTech and I exchanged. Jonathan Edwards is a pretty doctrinally-sound Puritan author from the 1700s. It was a misunderstanding stemming from some sloppy quoting by a Jewish author. The misunderstanding revolved around the root word for "Messiah" being the same as "Annointed."

I agree with what I'm thinking you're implying, that Mormonism has a lot of heresy....

[Quix]

Good post.

I believe there are thousands of ways to give God our best in ways that please Him most. I suspect dress is way far down on HIS list, if it's on the list at all.

Certainly I'd prefer to avoid distracting others focusing on God. The eye of the beholder is a factor as you noted. There will always be plenty of distractions for those given to being distracted.

And, while there's a place for being all things to all people, I think it would be at least a little odd to perhaps dysfunctional for all of us to go around changing costumes every other hour depending on the audience. We'd need a valet to run along behind us with the wardrobe. And who would carry his wardrobe?

Also, we all have different personalities, tastes and things we look good or terrible in. Some measure of balance taking all those priorities into consideration is probably about what God expects of us to settle on and then forget.

For some, clean and decent is a struggle. Others have trouble being at ease around others unless the firs person is decked out to the max. Reasonableness and balance could decide the boundaries quite safely, IMHO.

Anyway--thanks.

[Elsie]

Well...................  SELECTIONS FROM THE
BOOK OF MOSES

CHAPTER 4
(June—October 1830)

How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall and death enters the world.

 AND I, the ^aLord^• God, spake unto Moses, saying: That ^bSatan^•, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the ^cbeginning^•, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will ^dredeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely ^eI^• will do it; wherefore ^fgive me thine honor.

 But, behold, my Beloved ^aSon, which was my Beloved and ^bChosen^• from the beginning, said unto me—^cFather, thy ^dwill^• be done, and the ^eglory^• be thine forever.

 Wherefore, because that ^aSatan ^brebelled^• against me, and sought to destroy the ^cagency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be ^dcast^• down;

 And he became ^aSatan^•, yea, even the ^bdevil, the father of all ^clies^•, to ^ddeceive^• and to blind men, and to lead them ^ecaptive at his will, even as many as would not ^fhearken unto my voice.

 And now the serpent was more ^asubtle^• than any beast of the field which I, the Lord God, had made.

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THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH

CHAPTER 3

Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim—The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits—He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

 AND I, Abraham, had the ^aUrim^• and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

 And I saw the ^astars^•, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is ^aKolob^•, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its ^atimes^• and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a ^bday^• unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand ^cyears^• according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s ^dtime, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or ^agreater^• than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these ^atwo^• facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one ^aplanet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same ^border^• as that upon which thou standest.

 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

.

.

 And they who ^akeep their first ^bestate^• shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second ^cestate shall have ^dglory^• added upon their heads for ever and ever.

 And the ^aLord said: Whom shall I ^bsend^•? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And ^canother^• answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will ^dsend the first.

 And the ^asecond was angry, and kept not his first ^bestate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

 

 

What do YOU think?

[Elsie]

Sorry about those &#822* things.........

Unprintable characters, I guess!

[Theo]

As I said, Mormonism is full of heresy. Jonathan Edwards is not a Mormon, but a Puritan from the 1700s.

It looks like "Moses 4" says something about Satan existing "from the beginning" (heresy), Satan desiring to be a "redeemer" (from the sin that he led humanity into?), and so on.

It looks like "Abraham 3" includes similar heresies, albeit more figurative than "Moses." It's really not worth my time to consider the words of that fiction-writer Joseph Smith.

No outright offense intended if you're a follower of Mormon. I've studied its history and doctrine, and it's quite wrong.

I *am*, however, taken by the Lord, and am fascinated with how I can grow in worshiping Him in spirit and truth, and helping others grow similarly....

[Quix]

GOOD POINT.

[CARepubGal]

Actually, Edwards is totally separate from the Heretical swamp that is Mormonism. :-) Just to clarify your FReepmail I sent.

[Steve0113]

bfl

[Quix]

i BEGIN to wonder if you have understood the English words used in our posts.

Your assertions in this post and your Scriptures strike me as very off the wall in terms of what we've been trying to say to you.

Instead of ships passing in the night--it's more like galactic clusters at the furthest reaches of the universe passing . . . if "passing" can be a remotely useful and accurate word in such a case.

I'm stunned that you have such little evident comprehension of what we've been saying.

Your response strikes me as very few shades of responding to us in some sort of Swahili speaking in tongues. Really off the wall compared to what you were supposedly responding to.

[Quix]

I love your post and wholeheartedly agree with it.

[Quix]

Taste can, at some point, related to Godliness--clearly.

I'd have real trouble seeing dancers in a worship service prancing about with their but cracks showing.

But on the whole, I think God cares tons and tons less about such externals than we think.

I think in most cases--it's a case of

those who eat meat eat as unto the Lord. Those who abstain abstain as unto The Lord. God receives both as unto Him.

BUT HE'S VERY DOWN ON FOLKS WHO USE ETERNALS TO HINDER OTHERS COMING TO GOD.

[Quix]

Thanks.

[Quix]

VERY WELL SAID.

GOD INSISTS ON THE FREEDOM TO BE GOD!

[Quix]

for sure.

[Quix]

Very well stated if a bit terse--terseness well earned on the part of the nonhearing hearer.