Posted on 08/18/2003 7:56:04 AM PDT by RightFighter
I'm just looking for some Freeper advice to help me settle a bet with a friend. Here's the situation:
We go to a church that practices biblical church discipline. The church believes very strongly in this and takes it very seriously, especially in the case of adultery and divorce. Well, recently, we became aware that there is a couple who will soon be getting a divorce. The woman is initiating it, not for infidelity or anything like that, but simply because her husband "doesn't have the same goals" that she does, etc.. Needless to say, she's being asked to leave the church because of this. When a member is expelled like this, church members are told that we are not to fellowship with the expelled member and are simply to pray that they would repent of their sin and return to the body and that we should urge them to do so any time we see them. This is where the argument with my friend comes up.
My friend says that, because the church is regularly open to the public, he doesn't think that it has the right to tell her that she can't come to church there, and that if she wanted to continue to come there, she could do so and the church could do nothing about it.
I say that the church, as a private entity, has every right to tell someone that they are not welcome on the property, and would have the right to have someone arrested for trespassing if they failed to heed such a request.
I would hate for it to ever come to something like that, and I doubt it would, because what church member would WANT to come to a church that doesn't want them there. My friend, however, just doesn't seem to agree with the whole church discipline thing, so he's drawn a line in the sand here with this argument. Who's right??? And can any of you give me any legal case that involved a similar situation that would back it up? Sorry for this whole post, but I tend to a little bit argumentative, and the nature of my relationship with my friend is such that it would be best to clear it up once and for all.
"Fellowship" is not a verb, at least not in our language.
So9
I say that the church, as a private entity, has every right to tell someone that they are not welcome on the property, and would have the right to have someone arrested for trespassing if they failed to heed such a request.
As has been mentioned, even commerical establishments such as bars, malls, restaurants and the like can prohibit certain individuals that have previously engaged in bad conduct.
Although they are "open to the public", it is an implicit invitation that can be withdrawn from specific individuals. Under civil rights laws, commercial operations can't base it solely on race at all, gender only in appropriate cases, etc. But most private groups can still restrict on race or anything else.
As long as the Church isn't operating a business, they can restrict on race, gender, religion, behavior, whatever.
Sorry, I should have said we are told not to "engage in Christian fellowship" with the expelled member.
I seem to remember Jesus hanging out with sinners, how else to convert them?
I guess y'all are just better and purer than he is.
So9
This action is contray to Christs own direct teaching on how to handle disagreements.
On purity of the church: Matthew 16:5-12.
On expelling sinful brothers in the faith: Matthew 18:15-17
On those who do not follow the Gospel: 2 Thess. 3:6-15
On associating with sinful brothers: 1 Cor. 5:9-13 (very specific language here!)
These lay the groundwork for church discipline. It's not something made up by men for the pleasure of maintaining personal piety. It's hard stuff -- and harder still to implement. But it's done for the purity of CHRIST's church.
This is from the original post: Well, recently, we became aware that there is a couple who will soon be getting a divorce. The woman is initiating it, not for infidelity or anything like that, but simply because her husband "doesn't have the same goals" that she does, etc.. Needless to say, she's being asked to leave the church because of this.
What I'm interested in finding out is, just what does this particular woman have to do to regain membership in her church? Does she have to cancel the divorce proceedings and stay in the marriage, or what?
The church (my PCA denom at least) will not, for instance, permit the membership of a couple living together "in sin". If they marry (effectively repenting of that condition), then membership can be bestowed. Until then, we would encourage them to come to the church, to learn the teachings of the Scriptures, and to consider that they they ought to repent of sin. In other words -- exactly like all of us should do.
Once under the arm of the church, members are expected to continually examine themselves and to attempt to free themselves of sinful practices. That's a continual struggle, but is appropriate for all beleivers.
Once again, no one is subject to church discipline UNLESS they are testifying members of the church and UNLESS they are engaging in publicly known, unrepentent sin.
Fine for you. I will stick to the reported words of Christ and continue to reject all teachings added by later "apostles" as of no more worth than those of Jimmy Swaggert.
So9
Gotcha: essentially, the answer to your question is "Yes" -- stop the processings in progress. The church has a vested interest, too, in nuturing the believer's lives, so I would expect that Step Two (if she takes Step 1) would be to encourage marriage counseling and other similar steps to restore and grow the existing marriage. Simply stopping the divorce ain't gonna fix this wagon by itself.
This is something that the husband and wife would have to work out together, but once done - if successful -- full restoration to the church body would follow. Once things get this far, ... well, you can fill in the blanks and I've typed way enough on this thread.
Then also see my post 67: you'll note that the words in the Matthew passages may be in red in your Bible. I happen to believe that God used men to continue His message once He departed. Paul's words are not inconsistent with the Matthew passages in any way.
..and I've typed way enough on this thread.
Drats! I was also wondering what the ramifications would be if the couple (after going for counseling, etc.) still felt that divorce was the only option for them.
At any rate, I'm off to do yardwork. You have a good day, ya hear?
How do you know those words are reported accurately?
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