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A better life, but not in U.S. - Economists say growing number of immigrants leaving America
Houston Chronicle | August 17, 2003 | JENNIFER BEAUPREZ

Posted on 08/17/2003 12:38:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

DENVER -- Yusuf Hussain, after spending seven years in Colorado, packed up his three-bedroom house in Littleton last week in search of a better life. He says he will find it in Pakistan.

The 39-year-old executive came here from Pakistan just as the U.S. tech economy was taking off in 1996. Today, he is being lured back by what he can't find here: Jobs, wealth and economic activity.

Many foreign nationals no longer view America as the land of opportunity. Economists, businesspeople and other experts say growing numbers of immigrants are moving back to their home countries of Pakistan, India, China, Singapore and Vietnam -- countries with job and economic growth sometimes double or triple that of the United States.

The U.S. government hasn't kept totals on emigration for several decades. But economists and immigrants say the anecdotal evidence of the trend is real.

"I get calls from friends left and right saying they are packing up and going back to China," said Hai Yan Zhang, a Denver-based Chinese business consultant who travels to China five times a year.

"I go to China and see people's eyes sparkling," Zhang said. "It's full of life and vitality there. In contrast to the U.S., where we're reaching a plateau, perhaps going down."

Economists say the exodus could hurt the U.S. economy because America is losing some of the world's smartest and most entrepreneurial people.

And it most likely will feed a controversial trend by U.S. companies to create jobs or move existing jobs offshore in search of cheaper and faster software development, manufacturing or customer service.

"Those people will have the talent to do the work in their home country, and they have the relationships with the companies they used to deal with," said Rich Wobbekind, an economist with the University of Colorado. "It's going to be easier for them to set up facilities in other countries."

Indeed, that's what lured Hussain to return to Pakistan.

Hussain, chief executive of Denver software firm Cressoft, plans to open a facility in Pakistan to provide faster, less expensive software development for U.S. companies.

"Offshore in my mind is the most high-growth prospect for the foreseeable future," Hussain said.

Today he sees climbing real estate values, an improving stock market and software contracts in Pakistan.

"I think you're seeing a bit of a movement," he said.

Almost all countries in Southeast Asia have higher economic growth rates than the United States. Much of that activity is fueled by U.S. companies outsourcing their manufacturing, software development and customer service needs.

China is experiencing the fastest economic growth of any country, expanding at 8 percent a year, according to statistics compiled by the Central Intelligence Agency. The country has become a key manufacturing center for companies across the globe, making everything from washing machines and clocks to chemical fertilizers and sugar.

India ranks No. 2, growing 4.3 percent last year. With its highly educated, English-speaking work force, India has become a prime spot for affordable customer-support call centers, software development houses and, more recently, technical support centers.

"I know a lot of Indians who are going back to India," said Zafar Khan, a Denver attorney and accountant who speaks six languages and has lived in five countries. "At the moment, there is a downturn. Companies are closing, and there's not a lot of work."

Khan said he is considering moving back to his native Pakistan to join Hussain's software venture.

"I'm toying with it," he said. "I'm an international guy. I can move anywhere there is opportunity."

Multiple forces may pull immigrants back home, said Bahman Paul Ebrahimi, a global business professor at Daniels College of Business at the University of Denver.

Some people arrived here a few years ago to meet demand from companies that desperately needed talented computer scientists to keep up with the booming economy. Today, their work visas have expired, and they're forced to go home because they can't find an employer to sponsor them, he said.

Ebrahimi said he also knows of foreign students who came for school but now are leaving because they couldn't find work after graduating.

Ebrahimi, who moved here from Iran decades ago, said he also perceives an anti-immigrant feeling here and a deep resentment from jobless Americans.

"No matter how long you live here, people will consider you a foreigner," Ebrahimi said. "There's a social stigma and backlash in this country. Sometimes there's subtle, even overt, hostility."

Still others, such as Hussain, crave being close to family and cultural roots.

"It's very work-oriented here," Hussain said. In Pakistan, he said, people focus more on family and have more of a sense of spirituality rather than materialism."

Yet there's a trade-off, said Zhang, the Chinese consultant. She said many people who spent enough time in America suffer from what she calls "re-entry shock" when returning home.

In China, houses typically are cramped and corporations are bureaucratic, offering little room for advancement or personal initiative, Zhang said.

And in India, simple things such as getting phone service, banking or receiving health care may take weeks.

As more immigrants leave, fewer come to the United States on temporary work visas these days.

Outside of retail pharmacies and health care employers, job-slashing corporations no longer salivate over foreign nationals as they did a few years ago to fill vacant tech jobs.

Plus, the government has tightened restrictions on immigration because of homeland security concerns, said Bill Strassberger, a spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship & Immigration.

Requests to receive H-1B temporary work visas fell 41 percent from October 2001 to June 2002, according to Economy.com. And the number of those visas actually doled out dropped 53 percent to 60,500 over the same period.

"I think it's a loss for the long run," said Wobbekind, the economist. "Over the centuries, that's what made our country great, having a melting pot of different cultures and talents. We're accidentally exporting some smart people who could easily compete with us."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cya; education; emigration; h1b; immigrants; jobs; seeya
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"No matter how long you live here, people will consider you a foreigner," Ebrahimi said. "There's a social stigma and backlash in this country. Sometimes there's subtle, even overt, hostility."

Yeah, Ebrahimi, try being anyone other than the majority native population (or the politically ascendant one) in any other country and tell me how little social stigma you feel compared to the U.S.. Try being a Korean in Japan or a Japanese in China or a Chinese or Indian or Pakistani in Zimbabwe or Kenya or an ethnic Kurd in Iraq or Turkey or an Armenian in Azerbaijan or an Azeri in Armenia or a white Brit, American, or Australian in Iran, India, or Indonesia. Tell me how many generations it takes before any of these people and their descendants are no longer considered foreigners.

A lot of this movement back home has been going on since time immemorial (in some cases it took about 400 years before the exodus back home). Some people move to a different region because things are tough back home, make a lot of money/establish a business, and then return to the home country to live in relative luxury. I've seen it happen in the Dominican Republic.
41 posted on 08/17/2003 5:14:03 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Almost all countries in Southeast Asia have higher economic growth rates than the United States.

Rapidly industrializing, relatively non-diversified economies with large, dirt poor, rural populations living in conditions characteristic of the previous two centuries but eager to go to the big city to make their fortune have a faster rate of growth than the economies of the countries that went through this phase one to two hundred years previously (see England during the Industrial Revolution).

This article appears to be saying something like, "Almost all children have faster rates of growth than adults; therefore, there must be something wrong with the adults."
42 posted on 08/17/2003 5:21:13 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
Bump!
43 posted on 08/17/2003 5:25:07 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: aruanan
Great comments.
44 posted on 08/17/2003 5:25:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
There are plenty of jobs in china and india. There are lots of new factories being built there, and lots of high tech jobs available. Unfortunately, they do not hire american citizens, they do not have a chinese version of the H1-B visa program, and they are not trying as hard as they can to get foreigners to move to their country.

Who is smarter than who?

45 posted on 08/17/2003 5:30:56 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I'm guessing this may have less to do with $ as it does with their sensing a loss of security. They know that the U.S. is in the scope sights of every terrorists of every stripe.
46 posted on 08/17/2003 5:31:44 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
DENVER -- Yusuf Hussain, after spending seven years in Colorado, packed up his three-bedroom house in Littleton last week in search of a better life. He says he will find it in Pakistan. ................

By Allah, may the trickle turn into a flood.
47 posted on 08/17/2003 5:34:38 AM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
have higher economic growth rates than the United States.

Someone tell the Mexicans, forget crossing the Rio Grande, cross the Pacific. Many new suburban lawns to cut.

48 posted on 08/17/2003 5:34:39 AM PDT by putupon (Only read headlines and captions, it keeps your head from getting too fat.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Good-bye and good luck.

However, all the border trails still head North here in the San Diego county border area.
--
Z-28
san diego, ca usa
49 posted on 08/17/2003 5:39:23 AM PDT by Z-28
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I understand there is still over 8 million people on the INS lottery waiting list for the lottery held every year for free US citizenship. I think the INS is called something else now, under the Dept. of Homeland Security now.
50 posted on 08/17/2003 5:44:50 AM PDT by Z-28
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Economists, businesspeople and other experts say growing numbers of immigrants are moving back to their home countries of Pakistan, India, China, Singapore and Vietnam"

It's a start, but I don't see Mexico on that list.

"the exodus could hurt the U.S. economy because America is losing some of the world's smartest and most entrepreneurial people"

How about we go back to giving our OWN kids a quality education? Now there's a novel idea.

"With its highly educated, English-speaking work force, India has become a prime spot for affordable customer-support call centers, software development houses and, more recently, technical support centers."

English speaking work force....yet another novel idea. What enterprising people these are. Why didn't we think of that?

"...said he also perceives an anti-immigrant feeling here and a deep resentment from jobless Americans."

Well, DUH!!!! Why do you reckon that is?

"I think it's a loss for the long run," said Wobbekind, the economist. "Over the centuries, that's what made our country great, having a melting pot of different cultures and talents."

Hey moron, the melting pot boiled over a long time ago and our own culture has become so diluted as to be almost unrecognizable to those of us who have lived long enough to witness some of the changes. They are NOT changes for the better.

51 posted on 08/17/2003 5:49:54 AM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: putupon
LOL
52 posted on 08/17/2003 5:54:29 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: sweetliberty
How about we go back to giving our OWN kids a quality education? Now there's a novel idea.

Bump

BUMP!

BUMP!!

53 posted on 08/17/2003 5:56:02 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: undeniable logic
I believe that the majority, probably super-majority, of Americans do not crave the opportunity offered here. We as a nation have become spoiled and are squandering the opportunities provided by our capitalistic system. I think a major part of what has allowed our country to continue to propser is the importation of talented individuals who crave the opportunities offered in our country...Now, we can have the gut reaction that has been posted on this board, such as don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out, but you have to consider who is leaving...I would be overjoyed if it is the immigrants who came to take advantage of our entitlement system that are leaving, but I do not think it is good if we begin exporting talent...Remember, Mexico has taken an active role in exporting their lower class to our country - these immigrants have become a drain on our resources.(and they vote illegally, @ the behest of the "RATS) This is only exacerbated if we begin exporting skilled and/or educated workers.

you screen name said it all...One of my co-workers moved back to Sri Lanka. :|

54 posted on 08/17/2003 5:56:04 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: DB
Somehow I doubt that. The "smartest and most entrepreneurial poeple" wouldn't have a hard time making it here.

If the present trend of outsourcing continues why the "smartest and most entrepreneurial" Indians or Chinese should stay here? For 10K/year plus they can have a very good life in their home countries. They will not need visa to go home, they will bring American know-how, connections and they will be able to start their own business to utilize American market.

55 posted on 08/17/2003 6:04:13 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Thanks. Now it's time for America at least to strip away layers of government fat, repudiate UN resolutions on the development of space, and start work on products (both pharmaceuticals and electronics) that can be made only in zero or micro-gravity. This way we can extend the rungs of high technology and economic development ladder upward, literally, and remain ascendant. The space elevator wouldn't be a bad thing to work on either so that, once we have established an unassailable position in orbit around the earth and on the moon by more conventional means, we'll have the means to expand it by moving people and products in a radically cheaper way than hitherto available. So non-space faring nations bitch and moan? Tell them to concentrate on making toys for WalMart and someday maybe they'll be grown up enough to emigrate from the planet into space. But, until that time, they can stay in their place because we hold the high ground and we've got them covered.
56 posted on 08/17/2003 6:06:01 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan
Onto the Dragon's Back
57 posted on 08/17/2003 6:11:09 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Penny
The INS is a subversive organization that is trying to balance our ethnic diversity by leaving our borders to the south open and simultaneously blocking the immigration of Northern and Eastern Europeans.

If you want to jack this guy up call the licensing board (I bet he is not licensed) and the IRS (I will bet he falsifies tax returns)

you will get a lot more traction

Regards,

58 posted on 08/17/2003 6:13:27 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: atomic conspiracy
As usual your translation/summary nails this whining and moaning by a left winger posing as a journalist. Your excellent summary/translation is repeated below:

Translation: the money-grubbing sharks are finding it easier now to exploit their own countrymen and harder to exploit Americans. Good riddance. I loathe these people, actually despise them. I came here 34 years ago, joined the US Army, and spent a year in Vietnam before I took the oath of citizenship. I didn't do it for economic opportunity, though there is plenty of that here.

The world hates us, blinded by a hatred that is equal parts greed, envy and the dire effects of commercially motivated Hate-America propaganda, much of it originated by status-crazed yuppy fifth-columnists like the piece of garbage who penned this article from the Chronicle. Let them hate us and, by all means, get these arrogant authoritarian carpetbaggers out of the country and encourage them to take their greedy little sycophants with them. As for me, I will never leave, never.

59 posted on 08/17/2003 6:20:13 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (Gray Davis = Bill Clinton without the conscience + Al Gore without the charm = Total Recall Time!)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
The INS is a subversive organization that is trying to balance our ethnic diversity by leaving our borders to the south open and simultaneously blocking the immigration of Northern and Eastern Europeans.

And Aussies. My son is finding it tough to immigrate to the US. I guess that the fact he's white, educated, hard working, English speaking, freedom loving, and conservative rules him out.

60 posted on 08/17/2003 6:29:40 AM PDT by ONA-ASIS (Aussies kick ass and take names!)
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