CA: A little too much power in the people's hands?

Mercury News ^ | 8/13/03 | Mona Charen

[NormsRevenge]

The nation owes Arnold Schwarzenegger gratitude for pushing Kobe Bryant out of the headlines for the first time in weeks.

Still, the concept of recalling a sitting governor for anything less than moral turpitude strikes this conservative as ill-advised.

I raise the matter of principle because the state of California is currently paralyzed in part because it has abandoned the sound principles upon which the nation was founded. The Constitution does not, of course, specify how Californians are to govern themselves -- except to say in Article IV, Section 4 that every state must be guaranteed a ``republican form of government.'' A republican form of government means that the people choose their leaders. It does not mean that the people decide every question by referendum.

[Alberta's Child]

Is it really such a great idea to let the people rule completely? California (unwisely in my opinion, but they didn't ask my advice) re-elected Gov. Gray Davis. Now they regret it. But he hasn't done anything different from what he did during his first term.

This statement is actually a very common misconception regarding the recall effort in California. Contrary to what many people believe, very few people in California "regret" that they re-elected Gray Davis last year. If you need any proof of this, just take a look at Bill Simon's miserable numbers among the recall candidates in any recent poll. If Davis and Simon were to have a re-match today, tomorrow, or any day between now and 2006, Davis would still win every single time.

What the people of California are effectively saying through this recall process is that they weren't happy with the choices they had on Election Day last year. They had a choice between AIDS and syphillis, and they selected what they thought was more likely to be the syphillis. But now, they have a chance to get rid of this disease and cure it entirely, or at least replace it with something that is no worse than the common cold.

More than anything else, the success of this recall effort illustrates an utter dissatisfaction of California voters with the "usual" two-party political process.

Which is why I think Arnold Schwarzeneggar is going to be the next governor of California, and by a margin that is going to shock a lot of people.

[mewzilla]

Heaven forfend, Mona, that the voters be able to fire their chief exec.

[goldstategop]

I agree completely and I would point out to Mona Charen its not exactly like the recall procedure has been used excessively. There were 31 previous attempts to recall a sitting Governor and NONE of them ever made the ballot. This time it did succeed. But there is something about Gray Davis that just rubs people the wrong way. Its not just his massive unpopularity since I don't think it would be right to recall him even if he were hugely unpopular. That's part of it but there's also the perception Davis is incompetent, arrogant, and indecisive as a leader. All of which adds up to a politically lethal cocktail mix. And if Mona doesn't believe me on this score, I invite her to ask 10 Democrats at random in California what they think of the titular head of their state's party and what she will find is its hard to find one who has a good word to say about him. So if his own party can't stand him, what does it say about the rest of us in our state? For all the reasons I've given and more, people can't wait to be rid of Davis. Even two months seems too long!

[mewzilla]

Evidently Ms. Charen is worried that the peasants might get ideas above their station. All I can say is, oh, I hope they do...

[MileHi]

A republican form of government means that the people choose their leaders. It does not mean that the people decide every question by referendum.

But California's love affair with the initiative and referendum is leading it perilously close to direct democracy.

I can't help but agree with this at least somewhat. We have this process in Colorado. A few good things, such as the TABOR amendment have come from it. However many referendoms have been one sided special interest causes funded by big money from out of state. There is usually little or no organized or funded opposition so voters are bombarded with one side of the issue. The "gunshow loophole" and the ban on spring bear hunts come to mind.

Worse, these are not just statutes, they are changes to the Constitution by 50% + 1 of an ill informed electorate. If we want to keep the referendum process, I would at least like to see a 2/3 requirement of those voters who cast a vote.

[G.Mason]

Do you start to get the feeling that the "powers to be" are beginning to realize that this is a trend that may spread?

[ChewedGum]

When your management is basically sliding the whole state into the Pacific, I think you have the right to attempt to fire the management and save the state. (I know that if I were there...I would be moving though. Turbulent waters ahead no matter who is at the helm.)

Gum

[Ayn Rand wannabe]

Would that be a bad thing if they started to realize it though? If they realize that their jobs are in danger, they might just pass something that makes it harder for people to recall them (or they could just do what the people want, which isn't necessarily a good thing, IMO). Passing something to make it more difficult IMO, would not be a bad thing. If this trend spreads though... Well, I don't really want to think about that. I just pray it never happens.

[Noachian]

The Continental Convention that formed the American style of government was a mess too. No one knew exactly where they were going with this Constitutional type of government, but from that mess came a document that now inspires the rest of the world.

Mona should remember how it all started, and marvel that the people in California are doing as they wish. Whatever else is said about recalls there's no denying it's a tool that people can used to diminish government. And, when free people diminish government they elevate themselves.

[kimmie7]

The nation owes Arnold Schwarzenegger gratitude for pushing Kobe Bryant out of the headlines for the first time in weeks.

YES!!!

[dead]

Evidently Ms. Charen is worried that the peasants might get ideas above their station. All I can say is, oh, I hope they do...

The “opinion makers” have their own little niche in the system, and their own interests to protect.

[TheSpottedOwl]

Is it really such a great idea to let the people rule completely? California (unwisely in my opinion, but they didn't ask my advice) re-elected Gov. Gray Davis. Now they regret it. But he hasn't done anything different from what he did during his first term. Times have changed, that's all. I could understand a recall based on the same principles as impeachment -- crimes, moral turpitude, that sort of thing. But for being a lousy governor?

Of course not. Like when we had the nerve to overwhelmingly vote for Prop 187, California voters simply don't know what we're doing. Crimes and moral turpitude? I think deliberately lying about the state deficit is covered right there. Running up the deficit is a crime in itself. Pandering to the lowest common denominator is a good example of moral turpitude.

I could go on and on, but it's too early to rant ;-)

[breakem]

she says we could remove for moral turpitude. I guess committing other crimes and bankrupting the state just aren't important enough.

[chiefqc]

What planet does this moron live on?

Elected officals lie all the time, and the recourse to the voters is "Tough, you have no recourse".

Wake up and smell the coffee this is, at least the last time I checked, is a free country. If enough voters feel that they are getting screwed by their elected offical and can get enough people to sign a recall, why is this such a bad thing?

It's called freedom, people have fought and died for this right. And yet we have some moron who feels that this is giving to much power to the people.

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I could go on and on, but it is still called:

FREEDOM, FREEDOM AND FREEDOM.

[Publius6961]

Too much power in people's hands?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

That headline says it all!
damn peasants!

[Publius6961]

Do you start to get the feeling that the "powers to be" are beginning to realize that this is a trend that may spread?

I hope not!

Making a list and checking it twice.
I'll take care of my local morons, and hopefully others throughout California will deal with theirs...

We need an adult legislature.
That understands that 2+2 is not $38 Billion

[Quix]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh, hello?

His thuggery in general; his blatant lying about the budget before the election; his rampant corruption in his regime . . .

ALL THIS IS NOT ENOUGH OF A MORAL DISASTER TO WARRANT TARRING AND FEATHERING AND BEING SENT TO SOME UHHH HELLACIOUS PLACE ON A RAIL?

SHEESH!

I agree that there are hazards to direct democracy--especially vis a vis the voting of goodies at the public trough. And given media control by puppet masters coupled with the lazy dumbing down of the populace, the problems abound.

HOWEVER, in general, I've always been impressed with the horse sense and innate wisdom of the average man in the street--especially in rural areas. I wouldn't vouch tons for the 'man' in the street in say San Francisco.

Nevertheless, it has taken the recall effort to deal with Gray Sewerwater Davis. And the polls indicate amazing clear headedness on the part of most citizens. I'd say the people power has belatedly risen to the challenge--not too early by far. But thankfully it has finally arisen.

Personally, I think there's far too little grass roots power and exceedingly far too much federal power. I'd still like to see a Constitutional amendment REQUIRING EACH TAXPAYER to designate no less than 3 different cabinet level departments and/or major projects to which 55-65% of their tax payments would go.

Let the lead hogs at the public trough balance things out with the remainder.

In terms of referenda, bring them on. It's not overly easy to get to this stage. I don't know if it should be easier or not. Most of me thinks it should be easier to at least get a referendum on the ballot. But it certainly ought to be possible. Perhaps there should be a standing referendum ballot every two years or some such.

Somehow, there needs to be a much closer check, oversight of the public trough hog leaders in the capitals of the nation. If anyone has too much clout--it's these professional political jokers persistently raiding our pockets to our own and The Republic's hurt.

There's probably a variety of ways to do that. But the most straightforward is to run with the recall mechanism.

Otherwise, I'd love to see the most morally esteemed citizens in a jurisdiction as measured by clearly defined 10 Commandments type behaviors--widely acclaimed and acknowledged by the citizens in an area. Let such model persons be called together in an oversight committee well paid and with very time limited but serious investigative powers and political clout to oversee everything.

But such a set-up is at least decades away--perhaps after Jesus comes?

[geedee]

They had a choice between AIDS and syphillis, and they selected what they thought was more likely to be the syphillis.

Now THAT is the funniest most accurate explanation I've ever heard of Californication's problems.

You're on top of your game today, child.

[Semper]

...it's a bad law, and it ought to be changed.

True! But not as Mona would like. Davis should never have been reelected and the people of California know that - he should be removed. Our political system is corrupted from local to national levels and it is crying out for correction.

However, the law is obviously flawed when you get 247 people filing for candidacy with 115 qualified and still counting. It is a circus of major proportions. Further proof of the flaw is that Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante could get elected (he polls a closing 2nd behind Arnold). He would be just as bad or worse than Davis. Cruz belongs to a group which wants to take back California and several other states for Mexico! He is the only prominent democrat candidate. The republican party has been split and crippled by the religious right in California and has managed to lose all state-wide elected office. They don't like Arnold and dream that Simon could win. California could see worse times after this recall election. A flawed law gets flawed results.