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To: Con X-Poser
Well, logically, you just aregued me out of my Salvation. Thanks, brother.

My arguement is based entirely on putting the cart before the horse. My own beliefs aside, why in the world would I want to bring up the (apparent) inconsistancies of my argurement first when trying to convince anybody of anything? Perhaps we should lead with Salvation and worry about the rest later?

As I recall, I can't document anyplace in in the Bible where Christ said that the path to Salvation is: "Place all your faith in a 7-day Creation, and you'll do fine." I'd rather stake my soul on believing Christ died for my individual sins, accepting His Grace, and telling others about His love for them. Why should I make this issue a stumbling block for my brothers?

92 posted on 08/11/2003 10:57:51 AM PDT by 50sDad ("Can't sleep...clowns will eat me!")
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To: 50sDad
Not trying to talk you out of salvation, but if you don't believe the Bible, I don't know what kind of salvation you have:

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

However, I have no problem with your not putting the cart before the horse, BUT, those questions DO come up when witnessing to the lost, and when they do, they deserve to be scripturally answered, not ignored or covered up.

The Bible presents God as the Creator and Judge before it presents Him as Saviour. If He is not Creator and Judge, there is no need for a Saviour.

I believe losing that foundation is why fewer get saved today, and many that do make professions of faith, seem very shallow or false. They soon realize they are believing in a Jesus who supports all those things they were taught were myths - and if they did truly get saved, their growth wil be severely retarded until the accept the verse I posted above. And maybe, as we see happening in universities often, they will reject the faith that they professed.
107 posted on 08/11/2003 11:34:56 AM PDT by Con X-Poser
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To: 50sDad
The Holy Spirit leads us to the truth about what Christ did for us on the cross. By accepting that basic truth we have repented of our rebellion and acknowledged God's plan for our rescue.

Subsequently, God reveals Himself to us through the revelation of His Son, via the Holy Spirit authored Word of God. Blessed are those who believe not having "seen" these things. We can read of the truth's that God has preserved in the Holy Scriptures.

Christians have been wrong about the Bible over the years, but it is mostly due to their refusing to believe what the text says. (Luther's anti-Semitism - 1948 Israel regathered, a-millennialism - Augustine's incorrect allegorical view of The Book of Revelation, Crusades - the temple for the church is in believers hearts not the Holy Land, Inquisition - Christ is the mediator between man and God, not a power grab by a religious bureaucracy trying to shore up their leadership...).

Our relationship with God cannot be shaken by the musing of intelligent men. If we try to shape the Word of God to fit man's traditions, one of which is "science", we will fall into the same error as the religious leaders in Jesus' time. Science is correct only as long as it agrees with scripture, or it may or may not be correct if scripture doesn't comment on the topic.

HAVE YE NOT READ?
144 posted on 08/11/2003 12:53:01 PM PDT by bondserv
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To: 50sDad
." I'd rather stake my soul on believing Christ died for my individual sins, accepting His Grace, and telling others about His love for them.

This is excellent. This is the start; but, doubts WILL come, and THEN the logical conclusion will bring a person to the brink where he either decides, "I don't know", and continues in Faith, or he'll be convinced, "That can't BE! -- look at the 'data'!"

149 posted on 08/11/2003 1:02:35 PM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones........)
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