Schwarzenegger's race helps GOP (immigrant persona deemed a plus)

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | 8/10/03 | Donald Lambro

[Liz]

Arnold Schwarzenegger's bid to recapture the California governorship for the Republicans could dramatically change the face of their party in a major electoral state that is one of the Democrats' biggest political strongholds.

"If Schwarzenegger is able to win this and able to successfully govern California, he plants an inclusive Republican flag in a state that Democrats have taken for granted in the last several presidential election cycles," said an unidentified Republican Party official.

[sinkspur]

Your position on pro-life Democrats goes DIRECTLY against the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

Nah. The Democrat Party is pro-abortion. It's in their platform.

I'd vote for Ralph Hall, an East Texas Democrat, but he voted for Dennis Hastert for Speaker. He votes straight down the line Republican.

But, I won't vote for a Democrat who supports people like Pelosi and Charlie Rangel for leadership positions, no matter how pro-life they are.

[sinkspur]

Strange that you don't argue for "perfect" candidates--but rather, AGAINST them.

Please rigorously re-examine.

Many times, "perfect" candidates can't win.

Incrementalism, as the Vatican has said, is preferable to retrogression or the status quo.

[mafree]

Not trying to be a snot- but I don't think you quite understand what the Bulger crime family did to your beloved Southie in the 80's and 90's. An entire generation of kids were destroyed- given up to drugs, jail, violence, prostitution (Whitey liked to pimp out young teen girls by the dozen- 12,13,14 year olds), insane asylums, welfare, alcholism and suicide. I am not saying none of these problems didn't exist before- but there is definite evidence they became far worse while Whitey and his brother had free reign. Whitey is not some romantic gangster that I think you kinda see him as (I may be wrong)- he was a sick twisted man who raped young girls, helped murder at least one young girl the Rifleman Flemmi was screwing around with while dating the girls mother, and helped destroy hundreds of Southie youth with drugs. Organized Crime people are not the Soprono's or the God Father- they are complete amoral animals who are parasites on their communities.

DAYUM!! I moved from Beantown in 1987- didn't know Whitey was up to all this since that time, unless some of it was undercover while I still lived there. Pitiful.

[ninenot]

The Democrat Party is pro-abortion. It's in their platform

That doesn't make a difference and you know it. No Catholic may vote for a pro-abortionist in preference to a pro-lifer. Period.

You are correct, however, in your assessment of the Dim party's platform. Ask Tom Casey.

[Burkeman1]

OH - the myth is that he sold drugs only to blacks! Total lie. Whitey sold drugs all over Southie and other Irish enclaves like Somerville, parts of Dorchester, and even the Cape. In fact there was a higher murder rate over drugs and just random violence in White Irish Southie than in Roxbury or the black parts of Dorchester during the 80's and early 90's. Black parents from Roxbury didn't want their kids to hang out with Irish kids from Southie as they were a bad influence!

[ninenot]

Then the Texas law was correct, by Vatican standards, (which I think you took an oath to support.) It was incrementally outlawing sodomy.

[rolling_stone]

You completely misunderstand the phrase 'you cannot legislate morality.' It is a negative: that is, one cannot make me love, (say) Sinkspur, by law.

Were your interpretation the correct one, homicide statutes would be eliminated. OK by me, as long as it's only in California that it happens...

Ok I admit it you have confused me...I was expressing a negative.. you can't legislate morality..only laws...

homicide can be justifiable such as when a prisoner is lawfully executed..so I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say.

I was trying to say that people can make laws making certain things illegal but to some people they may or may not be moral....what is and is not moral may be different to different people and even different to themselves at different times in their lives or under different circumstances....everyone does not have the same views of morality...

[sinkspur]

Then the Texas law was correct, by Vatican standards, (which I think you took an oath to support.) It was incrementally outlawing sodomy.

Actually, the Texas legislature dropped the heterosexual sodomy penalty in the mid-70s. So, the Democrat legislature was singling out homosexual sodomy for penalty.

You and I are never going to agree on this, ninenot. There's no point in discussing it.

[mafree]

OH - the myth is that he sold drugs only to blacks!

I never heard that myth. Never knew who was sellin' the stuff- my life was pretty far removed from all that.

[ninenot]

I know what you were trying to say--but you need to work on articulation. It is not "homicide" to execute someone on death row, for example. Homicide is against the law--executions (at least in some States) are not.

In general, the natural moral law is in agreement with common sense. You know better than to worship money (I hope;) and you know that you owe something (why not worship) to Someone Who could be God. So do it. You should not work 7-day weeks. You should honor your parents, as difficult as it might be--and the older they get, the more honor you should give them. You should not kill the innocent, nor jump your neighbor's daughter or wife. You should not cheat and steal (Congress will be jealous.) You should not be working on fantasies about strange dames, nor strange boys--nor should you give a rotten fig if your neighbor has a pair of gold-plated Mercedes SL500's in the driveway because his Mercedes gull-wings are in the garage.

Not too hard to follow, all common-sense.

After those, we can argue. I personally think 80MPH should be the speed limit; others like 55.

[Burkeman1]

There was a myth- among upscale Irish and others- who never set foot in the Irish Projets of Boston that Whitey kept drugs out of Southie and only sold to blacks and hispanics. Total crap as Roxbury and other Black areas of Boston had their own well connected gangs that controlled the drug trade and were just as parasitic to their communities as Whitey was to Southie. It was a lie fostered for years, even in the Globe by the disgraced columnists Barnicle who was let go shortly after Patricia Smith- a black columnist who was let go for making up stories.

[rolling_stone]

Once again morality is different to different people, try examining different cultures around the world....

[Burkeman1]

I can't believe I agree with you on something!

[Stallone]

Without a significant percentage of the voters support, no mandate in California, even with a victory, means no co-operation from the Dems.

Only Arnold can make this work for the GOP.

Too bad we can't elect Tom, or Ronald Reagan, this time around.

Get over it, and stop handing the state to Davis cronies.

[ninenot]

Please specify with current documentation:

Which "world" culture endorses homosexual conduct;

Which "world" culture endorses murder of innocents (excluding stupid interpretations of the Koran...)

Which "world" culture endorses theft

Which "world" culture endorses extramarital sexual relations

Which "world" culture denies a Higher Power

And Margaret Mead's self-justifying BS about the Polynesians, as you know, is NOT 'current documentation.'

[ninenot]

Sorry. Principles count. And there's a long way to go before Election Day out there.

[rolling_stone]

"Please specify with current documentation: "

Find the documentation yourself if you don't like mine, you are the doubting thomas..http://www.google.com/


morals as I said before are different for different people..at different times in their lives..not just cultures..

moral: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment......


"Which "world" culture endorses homosexual conduct;"

Parts of the United States, try San Francisco for starters...the Supreme Court for additional info...and don't forget the Catholic & Episcopal Churches...

Which "world" culture endorses murder of innocents (excluding stupid interpretations of the Koran...)
Oh so tht doesn't count? Why, doesn't fit in your little box? New York, 9/11/01, Iraq 1979-2003, USA 1973 to present, see Roe v Wade...


Which "world" culture endorses theft
South Central Los Angeles after OJ, Rodney King Watts, etc -riots..US Congress, Democratic Party

Which "world" culture endorses extramarital sexual relations
Over 200, documented in "Anatomy of Love" by Helen Fischer, also United States documented by Bill Clinton...surely you jest...


Which "world" culture denies a Higher Power

Worldwide & USA- Atheists - Madalyn Murray O'Hair
http://www.atheists.org/

I suggest you get out more or read more, all these things are posted right here on FR....rs

[BlackElk]

As a Catholic during my time as a lawyer, I have represented a woman who was a Jehovah's Witness in a child custody matter since her religion, like mine, is protected from government interference. She is actually one of the Witnesses who go door-to-door. I very much disagree with the tenets of her faith. I very much respected her as a moral exemplar and her parents and siblings as well.

When Witnesses or Mormons come to my door, I treat them with respect, tell them that their dedication to spreading their respective faiths and willingness to put up with rudeness from some people other than me is an example that might well be followed by memebrs of my own Roman Catholic Church. Neither of those churches has caved in on either baby-killing nor on sodomy and neither is likely to do so either. I tell them that I am willing to listen to what they have to say but that I am a very orthodox and traditional Roman Catholic and that it will be a two-way conversation. Some have politely responded with thanks that I am religious and taken their leave. Others have stayed for discussion in which I use my own Bible. None have ever behaved other than respectfully.

What is this "so-called relgious people" business? They ARE religious people. My take on religion differs from their specific faiths. It probably differs from what I suspect is your rejection of religion.

You do have me on Ahhhhhhnold saying he wants to bring businesses back to California and that is a start. The rest of that particular position, according to George Will, is that he does not support raising taxes OR CUTTING PROGRAMS. "Guten Morgen, Herr Idaho Bisinessman, Ich bin ein governor of California....ja, Ich bin Schwarzennegger. I bin calling zis morning to ask you to move to California in spite of our taxes and regulations because I need more revenue for social spending and I will not raise taxes or cut spending either. Don't you want to move here?" Three days later Governor Ahhhhhnold receives a letter from Mr. Idaho Businessman, saying: Dear Governor Schwarzenkennedy: Some stumble-brained looney tune is impersonating you, sir, in telephone calls and ruining your good reputation by suggesting hilariously that we move our business from low tax Idaho to (you'll never believe this) high tax California where the regulations are something only Trotsky could admire and all so that we can help with California's, ummmmm, deficit. I wish you well in the impossible dream but, ahem, your work isn't being helped by this impersonator.

We legislate morality all the time. Do you pay attention to all the ranting about the borders as though they had been established by God? When we criminalize bank robbery, auto theft, spouse beating, assault and battery, murder, fraud, perjury, and thousands of other things, we legislate morality. Our legislatures do it before breakfast each morning. So do our regulators and our judges.

A candidate for public office does rather badly damage his standing with pro-lifers by mindlessly babbling: I'm pro-choice!!!! Translated into normal English, this means: you want to kill your baby? Hay, no skin off my nose. Kill as many as you like but whatever you do remember who told you it was OK and remember to vote for your friend. We are gonna give forty acres and a mule too and you are going to vote for your friend. Forty acres? and a Mule? Gee, that's swell!" No sense letting a little thing like 45+ million innocents slaughtered get in the way of self-interest, right?

Hitler built autobahns, provided a lot of neat construction jobs at good wages, got production of Volkswagens going, made the trains run on time (or was that Mussolini?), built Bismarck and Graf Spee, rebuilt the German military, made Europe respect der Vaterland once again, refused to pay what the Versailles Treaty imposed (gotta agree with him on that one) and did not merely protect his borders but expanded them wildly. There was that little matter of the camps and the Jews and the gypsies and Slavs and the priests and the nuns, but, hey, zo who ist perfecttt? Pretty please, Herr Hitler, ve do not vant to badger you or anything just to educate but could you give us chust a few Jews and gypsies and Slavs, and a priest and/or a nun or two so ze enemies of ze vaterland vill not be able to zay ve killed zem all? We get letters from our cousins in Indiana and Mizzzouri who are getting verrrrry touchy about this stuff. Zat is an awfully big country over zere and it is not wise to taunt zem.

Which brings us to the Roman Catholic Church, the oldest continuous organization (not simply faith which would be Judaism) in Western Civilization, founded and guaranteed by Jesus Christ Himself, protected by the Holy Ghost Himself and absolutely guaranteed to last until the end of this earth. You don't have to be so bashful. You have a lot of company out there. I think you have a bone to pick with us or maybe a few thousand. We would not be caught dead trying to draft you but badgering or counter-badgering just in case you might be badgering Catholics, now that is a different story.

First of all, you are not a very accomplished cheap shot artist. We have plenty of those around here since the kiddiediddling scandals and lavender lotharios in Roman collars erupted so broadly into the public consciousness. You are not us (RC) so what does it really mater what you think? It is really never any of your business unless or until you repent and become Catholic, but I'll bet you suspected correctly that I am going to indulge you anyhow. Well, in a stunning upset, you are right for a change!

As to the NAMBLA connection, there is one priest (released on bond by those red-hot intellectual court authorities) who addressed the founding conference of NAMBLA and told them what a great idea they had with that "Sex by eight or it's too late" routine and proceeded to live his life accordingly for the next 20-25 years, endangering the nether ends of eight-year old digestive systems regularly during that time. I always think he is Fr. Slattery but the name may be Shanley or something like that. Then there was Fr. Geoghan, also of the Boston Archdiocese who abused a hundred or so boys and pled guilty to all. When Geoghan leaves Walpole Prison, it will be in a hearse, probably from old age. I forget the name of another lifer who reportedly raped and murdered by crucifixion an altar boy also in Massachusetts but was not found for eight or nine years and turned out to have become an IBM executive in Minnesota. His crimes are no fault of IBM if you are following me here.

OK, OK, but it isn't just priests, what about the bishops????? I gotta tell you, I would burn a lot of them at the stake but they don't let us do that anymore. Any bishop who personally engaged in these perversions with children, adolescents or even men would qualify. A far larger group of the leftwing AmChurch bishops are guilty of covering up. This is NOT all of them, These Kumbayas are utterly incapable of punishing anyone to the left of Emily Dickinson for anything much less sexual perversions.

You like your Catholics to be non-judgmental and Kumbayaish in "educating" rather than "badgering." You are gonna looooooove our bishops and archbishops like Roger Cardinal Mahoney of LA, William Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore, former Archbishop Rembert Weakland of Milwaukee (a lavender queen in his own right) and a host of others.

You want to talk hypocrisy? Here it is. You want Catholics to be wimpy non-judgmental Kumbayas and then you attack blaming the Church for the very hierarchs and priests who are, well, non-judgmental Kumbayas as you claim to wish.

You can't possibly conceive of our Catholic rage at these collared faggots or begin to be as enraged about this stuff as actual Catholics are. It is our Church and our sorry AmChurch liberal leadership and liberal priests who have been responsible.

Further, it does not matter one bit that other people do these things insofar as some think that absolves Catholics. No behavior by anyone else absolves the slightest bit of responsibility of these abusers and their protectors and enablers. Shutting up about the infant Holocaust in America will not absolve anyone either.

As a matter lf criminal law and civil law, each and every perpetrator and cover-up artist in AmChurch must be punished to the max. Those laws cover everyone not just Catholics. It will hasten the cleanup of the Church. Rome is now appointing solid Catholic after solid Catholic to the vacant sees here.

As a cheap shot artist, you are strictly an amateur. We call the behavior cited above sin which also embraces many other evils. Our popes sin. Our cardinals sin. Our bishops and archbishops sin. Our nuns sin. We sin and so do you and everyone else which again absolves no one.

We, as Catholics, do what we please organizationally and when we please without your advice. We mark time in millenia. The world worries about the trend of the moment.

BTW, droid is our business because he claims to be Catholic. Protecting baby-killing is a serious matter with us.

[BlackElk]

Nice tagline. That was Calvin Coolidge who said that.

I was last in Southie in the mid-nineties when I handled a divorce in a suburban court just south of Boston and spent an hour or so, driving the streets of Southie and recharging my Irish batteries on the way to Anthony's Pier 4(?) restaurant.

The entire generation???? They are ALL druggies, thugs. prisoners, on welfare in insane asylums, drunks, prostitutes or suicides? If we take out drinking, a neighborhood tradition, what percentage of the rest? I mean, we are talking about South Boston and not Bedford-Stuyvesant or the South Bronx. Whitey and the Rifleman are pillars of society by comparison with Ted the Driver, Ketchupboy and the Congressman who made Hot-bottom's male prostitution service famous or Rep. Gerry Studds who had the bad habit of turning over a new page, usually under 17 years of age. None of those would have lasted ten minutes in James Michael Curley's Boston or his Massachusetts for that matter.

Organized crime is less of a burden than unorganized crime. Even Junior Patriarca was not much of a problem compared to the Rastamen, the Dominican drug dealers and the Russians. Patriarca and Whitey had in house rules.

The suggestion that Billy Bulger had anything to do with pimpimg 12-year olds is beneath contempt and deserves no response. For someone claiming roots in Southie and Dorchester (presumable long ago in Dorchester), you are suffering an overdose of respectability and trying to do so at Billy's expense. Billy should be mayor. You referenced Whitey in the past tense. Is he dead? Or captured? Or disabled?

Richard Brookhiser, Yale mid-70's and a member of Skull and Bones, a Presbyterian from Rochester, New York, once heir apparent to Bill Buckley at NR who decided on writing biographies of such early gangsters as George Washington, the Adams dynasts: John, John Quncy, Charles Francis and Henry, Governeur Morris, Alexander Hamilton and other early gang figures, was delegated by upper crusty The New Yorker to go to Boston when Billy was still State Senate President to write a two-issue profile of he legendary bad boy of the Massachusetts State Senate. I know Rick. He went there intending something of a hit piece. No one threatened him. It wound up being a 14-page epic in prose that would be more than any Irish mother could hope, by far. Rick became a rabid admirer.

I refuse to allow HBO in the house so I don't know about the Sopranos. The Corleones were patterned rather closely on the Genovese Family in New York by Mario Puzo who well knew the situation. Now that the five New York Families have been badly damaged, crazy non-Italian gangs and NOT Whitey's terrorize afflicted neighborhoods and have no rules and no scruples. Pick up a copy of the 1928 book called Gangs of New York which was reprinted in paperback when the movie of that name (based on one chapter) was released. The Mafia brought relative peace to New York Streets. Lucky Luciano impose order. Rudy Giuliani, as U. S. attorney, whatever his virtues, broke that order and ironically had to deal with the results as mayor. He did well but the tapestry of nationality gangs still function and Bloomberg is clueless. Even the Teflon Don was a substantial degeneration from Carlo Gambino.

[rolling_stone]

We legislate morality all the time. Do you pay attention to all the ranting about the borders as though they had been established by God? When we criminalize bank robbery, auto theft, spouse beating, assault and battery, murder, fraud, perjury, and thousands of other things, we legislate morality. Our legislatures do it before breakfast each morning. So do our regulators and our judges.

Making a law does not mean you change peoples mind on what is moral or not, it only makes it against the law....maybe you should pay attention...

As for my comments on the Catholic Church or any other they were only to show the hypocracy, nothing more. If this morality you talk about is true, why are there such differences throughout the world? You do not know my religious upbringing or education. Maybe I have studied Catechism and gone to Catholic School, you don't know, maybe I know what a mortal sin and a venial sin is as well as last rites. Say a few Hail Mary's and Our Fathers and everything is forgiven, wonderful idea.... You are welcome to your views on religion or morality, but I suggest you have some tolerance for those that disagree with you. I am glad you have faith in something, there are many options available in this world, but the truth is until you die you really don't know what happens or who is right, now all you have is faith. I am not taking cheap shots at you or the Catholic Church, you have been taking cheap shots at a candidate for Governor and those that might accept his politics. You want to be a purist according to your religion, but your religion is so far from being purist it boggles the mind. You wonder how a political agenda can be promoted if it is not totally in agreement with your views, when your own religion has problems promoting its own agenda with its own leaders...

Obviously the abortion issue is a major if not the biggest issue in politics and religion, and people are firmly entrenched in their views one way or the other.

Lets see the Mormons promoted multiple marriages,(more offspring born into the religion) the Muslims also, and they can kill infidels if they don't convert to their religion, the Catholics are against Birth Control and abortion, the Jewish people believe if you introduce 3 people and they marry it will help them get to heaven. Seems all these "tenents" promote the growth of each of their religions and their power base.....Kinda like the Democrats and illegal aliens.....is it really about beliefs or expanding power?