The social analysis in the Vatican's opposition to homosexual marriage

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 8/9/2003 | John L. Allen

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

The REAL problem comes when the queer Nazis start excluding Catholics from any participation in public life when we won't drink their Kool-Aid that gay relationships can ever be "marriage."

[jimkress]

could find themselves facing a choice between the civil law and the demands of their church.

Nope. It is not "the demands of their church". It is the law from God.

Resisting sin is not painless and is not deviod of earthly consequences. Believers have to make a choice, obey God or follow Satan. That choice can have severe earthly consequences. Those that love and serve the Lord will make the right choice, enduring the earthly consequences, because they know true freedom and frue happiess come only from God.

[narses]

Ping.

[Bigg Red]

start excluding Catholics from any participation in public life

**
Beware the Gayhadists!

[Desdemona]

There's too much here that just is a little too shrill.

Similarly, Catholic marriage counselors would be in a difficult position if a same-sex couple were to seek their services.

First off, if one is not accepting state or federal funds for services, no one can force a counselor to accept a couple as clients.

A bit more complicated, Jonhstone said, would be the case of a Catholic who works as a civil registrar of marriages.

There is such a thing as finding another job.

“You could argue that both ways,” Johnstone said. “You could argue that this person is uniting his will with that of the same-sex couple and hence is cooperating with the marriage. Or you could take the view that he is simply willing the civil effects of that act and not the ‘marriage’ itself.”

This is why the church doesn't engage in mental gymnastics. Black or white, yes or no.

Still more complex, Johnstone said, would be a case in which a same-sex couple wishes to enroll their child in a Catholic school.

Catholic schools do not have to accept all children who apply for enrollment. That's part of the point of being private. I know of countless students refused entry to Catholic schools because of family history. It's part of the interview process.

NCR misses again. There's not enough here that defends the faith. It's all the wishy-washy hand-wringing of the folks afraid to say no.

[jwalsh07]

NCR misses again. There's not enough here that defends the faith. It's all the wishy-washy hand-wringing of the folks afraid to say no.

Undoubtedly, substitute the word socialism for homosexual marriage and you're left accepting socialism because socialists do it.

[sinkspur]

There's not enough here that defends the faith. It's all the wishy-washy hand-wringing of the folks afraid to say no.

On the contrary, it's the first thing I've read which poses some of the problems that Catholics in particular positions will face. The Pope's document did a good job of defending the Faith; this is simply an analysis of the effects.

[JesseHousman]

Here's what a belligerent fop had to say yesterday:

Editor, Naples Daily News:

Once again the moribund hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church makes a pronouncement that is supposed to shake all of us into moral rectitude. This time they speak out against gay marriage as an act contrary to "natural moral law."

Why is it contrary? Because it follows that a loving union between people of the same sex cannot result in progeny.

Following this logic, is any conjugal act between a married, post-menopausal, heterosexual couple (where the female is definitely past child-bearing age) an act contrary to natural moral law, since no progeny will result?

The church would say no, because this physical act is the result of the "holy" love between a man and a woman. The church is silent on why the love between a married, post-menopausal, heterosexual couple is more sacred than the love between two men or two women.

Oh, they will cite scripture as condemning same-sex love. But that boat won't float because scripture condemns many acts and has numerous behaviors proscribed which the church conveniently overlooks. Why are these other forbidden behaviors overlooked? Because the times have changed since the Good Book was written (by men) and the church has survived these many years by interpreting scripture in a relational manner to the times. Didn't someone once ask, "Is man made for the law or the law made for man?"

The church itself teaches that the law of the Old Testament is abrogated by baptism. The freedom obtained in baptism is intended to make room for a new guide or principle. That new guide is Jesus. And nowhere does His testament condemn homosexuality.

There is only one "natural moral law" that stands the test of time and runs as a seamless thread through all cultures.

That is the principle that states: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I think that is what the lesson of faith in the Prince of Peace was — no more and no less. It is time for the Catholic Church to be truly catholic and get back on track with it original mission.

— Daniel del'Ala/Naples

[Desdemona]

It's hand-wringing.

Do Catholics have backbone or not? We live with the effects by not bending.

[sinkspur]

It's hand-wringing.

It's analysis. Not everything written about the Catholic Church has to thunder with condemnation.

[EdReform]

Ping

[AlbionGirl]

You are right.

I have lived in a City far away from the parish of my upbringing for the last 13 years. In that time I've attended Mass infrequently until recently. The new church I frequent (I'm already looking for another) included an insert in the Church bulletin from some Catholic group who asserts its mission as the protector of those who work the land.

This insert, which was August's calendar (all the days of the month were noted with 'things to think about') was a piece of propoganda that shocked me.

It noted that one of it's goals was to restrict state to state produce distribution, and to enact legislation that would reduce our agricultural output, as we produce (according to the insert) 1.5x that which we need to consume. This group also asserted via the insert that all people have a 'right' to enough food to flourish, not just to survive. And they intend to bring that right about through government edict.

The thought to contemplate on the Feast of the Assumption was 'the dignity of our bodies'. And judging from the 'deep thoughts' for some of the previous days, the dignity of our bodies that we need to be contemplating is centered around their goals for the 'tillers of the land'. No mention of contemplating the Assumption of Mary into Heaven, though. Again, I was shocked. I called my Mom later on that Sunday and asked if she'd received such an insert and she said no, so it was undoubtedly something local.

I had called the rectory a few days before I attended Mass to register as a new Parishoner. The registrar couldn't take my call that day so she called me back a few days later, I told her I had changed my mind.

I hope I can find a Catholic Church that is not party to this kind of machination, but it doesn't look hopeful in my region.

[sydney smith]

A man's gotta make a living. If the fags want to marry and the U.S. constitution(or some liberal Supreme Court interpretation) says it's OK then who are you to stop it? You quitting your job is going to turn the moral sewer into God's kingdom? Let's say God gave you 5 kids to support? You are completely financially responsible because your wife can't work. Are you going to quit your job and put the welfare of your children at risk because two fags want to marry? Let them marry. Just remember to teach your kids the difference between good and evil. Don't try to save the world. That's not our job. Save your own soul. That's hard enough.

[BlackElk]

Fudge-packing calls for thundering condemnation. AND that's what it got when a "gay" music director and his husband or whatever here in Rockford at Holy Family Catholic Church (locally known as Wealthy Family Catholic Church) petitioned the State of Illinois to adopt a child in a situation tragedy known as "Adoptee has two daddies".

When the Kumbaya lavender music director came out of the closet to try to adopt an innocent child, he was given by the diocese the appropriate ultimatum: Break up with your "partner" and vow celibacy or begone. Mr. Music chose the latter, was promptly fired with the usual gang of suspects weeping crocodile tears, flapdoodle and wailing about insensitivity, and now works for a local Methodist Church (quelle surprise since the local Methodist bishop got arrested last year for sitting in for "gay rights" to be Methodists pastors and to marry in the Methodist Church).

The definition of liberalism, particularly in the RCC, is constant, neverending disturbance of the peace for the sake f disturbance. "Gee, the Unitarians would let Bruce and Lance marry and adopt little Frank, change his name to Foxy, and 'share their love with him.' Why can't WE be the ones out front for a change?"

Enough tolerance. Time to drive this perversion from the ranks. Lately Rome has been appointing actual Catholics as bishops in formerly AmChurch leftist dioceses. The cockroaches are just beginning to go scampering for the woodwork.

Wonder what Lavender Rembert, Milwaukee's one-time clerical queen, must "feeeeeel" about all this? He ought to write it up for National "Catholic" Reporter.

[BlackElk]

In what region do you live? Maybe your fellow Catholic Freepers can help.

[BlackElk]

Another member of Libertine Underground? And a member of FR for 6 whole days!

[AlbionGirl]

Rochester, NY and thank you!

[sinkspur]

Actually, he's a Tridentine traditionalist, from Australia way.

[AlbionGirl]

Fudge-packing calls for thundering condemnation.

Holy Toledo did that make me laugh!!!!! And bump...