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1 posted on 08/10/2003 12:26:33 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
The REAL problem comes when the queer Nazis start excluding Catholics from any participation in public life when we won't drink their Kool-Aid that gay relationships can ever be "marriage."
2 posted on 08/10/2003 12:31:51 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones
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To: sinkspur
could find themselves facing a choice between the civil law and the demands of their church.

Nope. It is not "the demands of their church". It is the law from God.

Resisting sin is not painless and is not deviod of earthly consequences. Believers have to make a choice, obey God or follow Satan. That choice can have severe earthly consequences. Those that love and serve the Lord will make the right choice, enduring the earthly consequences, because they know true freedom and frue happiess come only from God.

3 posted on 08/10/2003 12:44:34 PM PDT by jimkress (Go away Pat Go away!)
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To: sinkspur; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Ping.
4 posted on 08/10/2003 12:47:24 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: sinkspur
There's too much here that just is a little too shrill.

Similarly, Catholic marriage counselors would be in a difficult position if a same-sex couple were to seek their services.

First off, if one is not accepting state or federal funds for services, no one can force a counselor to accept a couple as clients.

A bit more complicated, Jonhstone said, would be the case of a Catholic who works as a civil registrar of marriages.

There is such a thing as finding another job.

“You could argue that both ways,” Johnstone said. “You could argue that this person is uniting his will with that of the same-sex couple and hence is cooperating with the marriage. Or you could take the view that he is simply willing the civil effects of that act and not the ‘marriage’ itself.”

This is why the church doesn't engage in mental gymnastics. Black or white, yes or no.

Still more complex, Johnstone said, would be a case in which a same-sex couple wishes to enroll their child in a Catholic school.

Catholic schools do not have to accept all children who apply for enrollment. That's part of the point of being private. I know of countless students refused entry to Catholic schools because of family history. It's part of the interview process.

NCR misses again. There's not enough here that defends the faith. It's all the wishy-washy hand-wringing of the folks afraid to say no.
6 posted on 08/10/2003 1:02:07 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: sinkspur
Here's what a belligerent fop had to say yesterday:

Editor, Naples Daily News:

Once again the moribund hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church makes a pronouncement that is supposed to shake all of us into moral rectitude. This time they speak out against gay marriage as an act contrary to "natural moral law."

Why is it contrary? Because it follows that a loving union between people of the same sex cannot result in progeny.

Following this logic, is any conjugal act between a married, post-menopausal, heterosexual couple (where the female is definitely past child-bearing age) an act contrary to natural moral law, since no progeny will result?

The church would say no, because this physical act is the result of the "holy" love between a man and a woman. The church is silent on why the love between a married, post-menopausal, heterosexual couple is more sacred than the love between two men or two women.

Oh, they will cite scripture as condemning same-sex love. But that boat won't float because scripture condemns many acts and has numerous behaviors proscribed which the church conveniently overlooks. Why are these other forbidden behaviors overlooked? Because the times have changed since the Good Book was written (by men) and the church has survived these many years by interpreting scripture in a relational manner to the times. Didn't someone once ask, "Is man made for the law or the law made for man?"

The church itself teaches that the law of the Old Testament is abrogated by baptism. The freedom obtained in baptism is intended to make room for a new guide or principle. That new guide is Jesus. And nowhere does His testament condemn homosexuality.

There is only one "natural moral law" that stands the test of time and runs as a seamless thread through all cultures.

That is the principle that states: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I think that is what the lesson of faith in the Prince of Peace was — no more and no less. It is time for the Catholic Church to be truly catholic and get back on track with it original mission.

— Daniel del'Ala/Naples


9 posted on 08/10/2003 1:06:57 PM PDT by JesseHousman
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To: scripter
Ping
12 posted on 08/10/2003 1:11:18 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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To: sinkspur
on issues such as abortion

It seems to me that the vatican has come down harder on the homosexual marriage issue than they have the abortion issue. They have been outspoken about the abortion issue but stopped short of urging catholic politicians and voters to to the line.

I really don't have any problem with this particular document.

22 posted on 08/10/2003 2:01:50 PM PDT by Aliska
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