IT happens only in India!

ping

First America owned the stell industry, then it went to the far east. Second, America became number one in manufacturing, then it went to the far east. IT was dominated by America, now IT is going to the far east. America needs a new golden industry. Biometrics, IT Security, Defense, Genome Tech, Software Dev, CRM, etc are in the up-and-up in America...We'll do fine. We'll outsource jobs equivelent to the the average produce picker. Give it a year, big Corporations will be begging to hire new employees.

Stell=Steel (extra ping for sarcasm)

ping

on or off this list let me know.

Now the Chinese leadership considers IT to be an esential militray technology. Further 79% plus 21% by my mathematics equals 100%

The average Indian isn't paying huge taxes to support peace keeping, humanitarian and diplomatic missions around the world. The average Indian isn't paying for the added costs of "code compliance", "litigation", "pension funds" and other hidden taxes on every product that is available to them. The employer side of FICA is often greater than the total wage paid to an Indian. Your house is overengineered compared to an one for an Indian, and to comply to local building standards you are forced to pay large sums of money. Granted the water and air is clean, and the power stays on most of the time, but for that privledge (and to purchase that privledge for the millions who don't pay taxes or utility bills), the American must make himself totally uncompetetive against billions of other people who are not saddled with supporting the world's most luxurious hammock.

All Your Base...heh, heh, heh...

Tackling human resource related issues like employee attraction and retention and high wage cost are some of the internal challenges confronting the IT services export industry.

Not much is reported about this aspect but the Indians in Bangalore and elsewhere are jobjumping like crazy to get raises and promotions. It's a gold rush mentality there. The Indian employers are cheaper than US employers in general re benefits and wages. US companies are being charged $28/hr for project leaders and $20 for programmers in IT for offshore work. The pressures will drive this up.

We'll do fine. We'll outsource jobs equivelent to the the average produce picker. Give it a year, big Corporations will be begging to hire new employees.

The jobs are only one issue, the larger concern is the loss of our defense industry base.Magnequench and Terfenol-D are not 'produce' but the most cutting-edge materials science we have.

But looking at the eroding job situation overall, IT jobs are not produce pickers. IBM is relocating 3 million jobs to India. Motorola is spending ALL their new capital spending overseas, and doing all their new hires overseas. $10 billion in new semiconductor plants and their associated R&D facilities. Engineers, now being outsourced as well, are not produce pickers. Semiconductor and Electronics R&D is not 'produce'.

I have a different prognostication. Give it 5 years, and unless tariffs are restored, we will literally have millions of people begging in the streets for any kind of job. The middle class will be imploding. And you will be out of a job, and no longer on-line.

Indian employers are also blacklisting those who switch jobs.

At the moment your typical Indian is not paying for defense costs at the level of your typical American, but this can change rapidly.

Both India and China are in a quiet competition to protect their "trade routes" to Africa where, post AIDS, they undoubtedly intend to take advantage of all opportunities ~ trade, basic extractive industries, resettlement of surplus populations, etc.

To do that both countries are into acquiring or buidling aircraft carriers!

Their next step will be into "carrier groups" and at that point folks in China and India will be paying American level taxes for defense (and offense). Then there's the anti-missile defense, fighter aircraft that are space-capable, missiles, etc.

Just one thing after the other and next thing you know these guys will be in the same boat we are. Hope they fix that nasty water problem before then.

India is still a socialist, corrupt, class riven, and completely inefficient country. It is also sliding backwards socially (e.g., they are burning widows in the back country again). Copyrights are a fiction, intellectual property wide open for pillage, and government is by bureaucratic caprice. India's most significant IT product is a series of increasingly nasty viruses.

When quality again becomes an issue, these "cheap" jobs will come home. And it will happen faster than people think.

Regards,

The big problem, Muawiyah, is that our government is striving to make things easier and cheaper for countries, especially China, to save money on strategic and offensive weapons development.

Our so-called "Defense Deparment" wants to move production of key guidance equipment for our "smart bombs" to factories in China.

That, coupled with the countless transfers of technology (missile guidance systems) made by the evil Clinton administration to Communist China made it very easy for them to launch the test missiles over Japan in recent times.

Here we have the Bush administration eagar to do the same damned thing and our weasels in congress will stand by while that happens.

Check this out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/redirect?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinquirer.net%2F%3Farticle%3D10933

The smart bombs are still pretty basic technology, not much more high tech than my black and white PDA ~ on the other hand if the Chinese had smart bombs they would not need to have so many pilots, nor build so many jet fighters and bombers, nor construct factories to build their replacements in case of war.

This is the type of technology that seems to give your potential adversaries an advantage but the real effect may be to create structural weaknesses in the adversaries' military related industries.

When quality again becomes an issue, these "cheap" jobs will come home. And it will happen faster than people think.

I truly pray you are right. But, unfortunately, the concern of Fortune 500 companies for quality is rather suspect lately. They keep looking at the bottom line of costs and letting that drive all decision-making.

"Socialism" in India these days is pretty much limited to electric power ~ like California, the government pays the bills.

When Enron took on both India and California at the same time it was just a matter of time until Enron would go down hard, which it did!

"Class riven" is an inadequate term for the "caste system". UK is "class riven", as is Deutschland and the Frankenreich. Indians generally wish that they were merely "class riven".

"Suttee" or "sate" never really went away either, and in a society without an effective social security system (the very hallmark of socialism) poor families really have no way to care for their elderly widows. This business of killing brides over the question of dower was just as frequent under the Raj as it is today ~ but it was generally not reported!

The real issue here is that innocent people are being murdered and no one cares. Kind of like the abortion situation in America where the innocent are murdered with full protection of the law and the government's guns.

The smart bombs are still pretty basic technology, not much more high tech than my black and white PDA

Actually, they are more advanced than that, with not just GPS guidance, but micro-miniature laser-ring gyros that are backing them up, and software to manage the two. Perhaps not having a super CPU it may not be so hot...but after all, you're blowing it up, why use a Pentium P-4? In terms of the sophistication that makes them resistant to GPS-Jamming, they are our state of the art. A resistance which totally confounded the Russians...and their Iraqi clients! :-)

"Class riven" is an inadequate term for the "caste system". UK is "class riven", as is Deutschland and the Frankenreich. Indians generally wish that they were merely "class riven".

I was trying to be kind, but you are correct. The fundamtal issue is that their government and social structure impedes effective competition in IT or anything else.

? They will not change and those IT jobs we currently mourn will come home soon enough.

Regards,