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We definitely need something bigger than .223

Why? Everyone likes to be an expert - and is sure they know better than those who are real experts in modern combat. But what's your basis for claiming your opinion is superior to those experts?

If weight were no object, then give everyone a 20mm and a couple of thousand rounds for it. But weight is an issue, a very, very important issue.

It's not a valid option just to choose a bigger round. Would you give up 2/3 of your rounds? (Weight trade vs. .308 and similar-case rounds). Would you give up the night vision equipment? Or the batteries for them? Or water? Or the flak vest? Or the helmet?

Just what would you give up in return for whatever benefit you gain with a bigger round? Remember, in a military situation, rendering an enemy combat ineffective is all that you need. In fact, it's better to wound than to kill, if the enemy is willing to take care of his wounded. A wounded soldier (that is cared for, and not just left to die) takes three men out of combat.

But most of all, hitting a bad guy with a .223 round you do have is lots better than waiting for him to get close enough to whack with your heavy - and empty - .308 (.243 / 7mm-08 / .30-06 / 20mm) rifle.

Say, for a Ford Driver, you're all right!

The .257 Roberts, 6.5X55, and a lot of other 6.5s, are just about the greatest all-around cartridges ever. Lot a stopping power at 300m and very good out-of-the-box accuracy, just where the .223 starts losing its allure.

Reports from Afghanistan are that the .223 is making reliable hits fired from sniper weapons at extreme ranges, but that the bad guy is not hurt too badly unless it's a head or chest shot. In other words, they can keep shooting back.

Pete Kokalis theory is that in order to get accuracy from the 5.56, they have increased the rifling, so you get a small bullet drill-through at long range, rather than the bigger bullet penetration and expansion you need to keep the bad guy down for keeps.

As a kid, I bought a surplus, as new Swedish Mauser in 6.5X55. On the range, it displayed phenomenal accuracy. A 1" group at 100yards ... as delivered for $54.95! Still have it 45 years later.

We definitly need something bigger than .223

Most interesting thing I've found on the subject lately: 6.5mm PPC, or .26 Grendel. More compact than .223, but I'm sure weighs more. This guy claims 1000 ft/lbs. @ 1000 yds, 1.5" groups at 300 yds. in an AR 15 match rifle. I want one.

http://www.competitionshooting.com/pages/708565/index.htm

"Personally, I would prefer to see .257 Roberts..."

A little bit too long. I've always lked the idea of a .250 savage loaded for pressures above and beyond what the original lever actions it was designed for could handle, or something on the order of a .25-08 with about a 110-115 grain death pill at rght about 3K fps...

How about the 338 Lapau.

Has the firepower of the 50 cal. without the weight and recoil.

Best sniper round around and will be my next rifle.

Accurate out to 1500 meters. Can enter lightly armoured vehicles and will penetrate an engine block.

Hot damn.

Hey Gunney Ermey..........how about a mail call demonstration?