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We definitely need something bigger than .223

Why? Everyone likes to be an expert - and is sure they know better than those who are real experts in modern combat. But what's your basis for claiming your opinion is superior to those experts?

If weight were no object, then give everyone a 20mm and a couple of thousand rounds for it. But weight is an issue, a very, very important issue.

It's not a valid option just to choose a bigger round. Would you give up 2/3 of your rounds? (Weight trade vs. .308 and similar-case rounds). Would you give up the night vision equipment? Or the batteries for them? Or water? Or the flak vest? Or the helmet?

Just what would you give up in return for whatever benefit you gain with a bigger round? Remember, in a military situation, rendering an enemy combat ineffective is all that you need. In fact, it's better to wound than to kill, if the enemy is willing to take care of his wounded. A wounded soldier (that is cared for, and not just left to die) takes three men out of combat.

But most of all, hitting a bad guy with a .223 round you do have is lots better than waiting for him to get close enough to whack with your heavy - and empty - .308 (.243 / 7mm-08 / .30-06 / 20mm) rifle.

Why? Everyone likes to be an expert

Umm... I am an expert

I've probably built more firearms of all kinds than most of the people here have shot, and many of them were done for the military, and I was involved in weapons testing for the military on small arms & crew served weapons, so I think that probably makes me an expert

The .223 never has functioned like it was supposed to as a military round, and we should look at replacing it

great point! The other fact is that at close range, where your round is traveling at 3000 fps, the 5.56 NATO round causes injuries that far exceed the types of tissue damage I've seen from .30 cal rifles. Just think about the damage a .308 or .30-06 does to a deer or other big game. Unless you hit heavy bone, you get a .30 cal hole going in and what, a .45 cal hole comming out? That's after the round travels 24 inches or maybe 48 inches through tissue.

On another note, using a modern rifle with a bayonet beats using the same rifle as a club, but they aren't as effective as when you effectively had a 6 foot pike, like with a musket, or that Japanese WWII bolt rifle (Type 38?). Just a comment.

SQ?

What's the weight difference on .243 vs .223?

Where's Travis?....this topic is his favorite.

Which caliber do I like?...hell, whatever is closest to my right hand.

I've murdered a lot of Bambis in central TX with a .243 Steyr/Mannlicher(and 2 other names I can't recall)....1970s model....very pretty.