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To: Gorjus
great point! The other fact is that at close range, where your round is traveling at 3000 fps, the 5.56 NATO round causes injuries that far exceed the types of tissue damage I've seen from .30 cal rifles. Just think about the damage a .308 or .30-06 does to a deer or other big game. Unless you hit heavy bone, you get a .30 cal hole going in and what, a .45 cal hole comming out? That's after the round travels 24 inches or maybe 48 inches through tissue.

On another note, using a modern rifle with a bayonet beats using the same rifle as a club, but they aren't as effective as when you effectively had a 6 foot pike, like with a musket, or that Japanese WWII bolt rifle (Type 38?). Just a comment.
215 posted on 08/08/2003 7:12:40 AM PDT by NYFriend
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To: NYFriend
The thing about bayonets n' buttstocking is, it was concieved when rifles were single-shot muzzleloaders at best, and supplies of ammo were unreliable or non-existant. We only arrived at the multi-shot repeater rifle in the late 1800's, and the supply lines and basic ammo load were STILL problematic.

Semiautos and full-auto battle rifles came along only about 60 years ago, and even then, running out of ammo in the face of a human wave attack or a banzai charge was a real possibility.

Nowadays, however, resupply of ammo is an order of magnitude better, and an individual rifle can carry 20-30 rounds on its own. Since ammo is smaller and lighter, the individual Soldier can carry more of it, as well.

Let's not forget, also, that even IF the Soldier runs dry (A pretty big IF, there. It means that a whole lot of other things have gone awry) he can, using modern comms, call down all manner of high-explosive Hell on his enemies in short order. That's another thing...in past wars, losing radio contact was a very real possibility, as only one man in a platoon or company had a radio. Of course, now every Soldier can contact someone.

Because of all this, the bayonet has fallen into very specialized uses...landmine-hunting, poking suspicious brush=piles, and prisoner herding are some that will probably happen far more often than any thrust-and-parry work. The bayonet itself has become a multi-purpose field knife that just happens to have a lug attachement point on it (see the M-9 bayonet).

Bottom line is, it's not as important anymore as is commonly believed.

221 posted on 08/08/2003 8:09:07 AM PDT by Long Cut
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To: NYFriend
On another note, using a modern rifle with a bayonet beats using the same rifle as a club...

The technique still seems to have some proponents and adherents here and there, it seems. Interesting to note that it seems so useful around those who are all similarly equipped...it seems that even in their deteriorated society, when armed individuals entertain disputes, they tend to be more polite in dealing with each other than when one is unarmed and there's a clear disparity of force available.

-archy-/-

241 posted on 08/08/2003 9:31:14 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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