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An impending religious persecution in Canada? & Legal warning to church on gay stance [Ireland]
Enter Stage Right/ The Irish Times ^ | 8/4/03 | Pete Vere & Liam Reid

Posted on 08/04/2003 9:31:07 AM PDT by Polycarp

An impending religious persecution in Canada?

By Pete Vere web posted August 4, 2003

Less than two months ago, Prime Minister Jean Chretien was assuring Canadians that the legalization of same-sex marriage in Canada would not lead to religious persecution. Various religious bodies in Canada would be permitted to continue holding and teaching their beliefs. My how things changed have changed over the summer. According to a recent article in the Globe and Mail, Bishop Jean-Louis Plouffe of the Diocese of Sault Ste Marie is now under attack by some among Canada's political and social elite. Why? Because he had the audacity to take the Prime Minister at his word and clarify Catholic teaching for Catholic politicians who prefer to fudge the issue.

"I don't think a man can allow himself to be divided by his convictions," the Globe and Mail quotes Bishop Plouffe as having stated. "A politician cannot be totally schizophrenic. If he is, he is not being real [...] I would expect a Catholic politician would not push away his Catholic convictions because he's a politician. I would expect him to be authentic." According to this same article, the words of Bishop Plouffe's counterpart in Calgary were much more forceful. The Prime Minister is "endangering his salvation," Bishop Henry reportedly states.

I know Bishop Plouffe. I grew up in his diocese and he confirmed me as young teenager. Under his episcopate, my father was ordained to the Catholic Church's permanent diaconate. Most Canadian Catholic commentators like myself would describe Bishop Plouffe as a moderate progressive - hardly an icon of Canada's religious right.

And yet, according to the same Globe and Mail: "The comments by Roman Catholic Church leaders have angered gay-rights activists and other religious groups. ‘It's just appalling,' said Michael Leshner, who legally wed his partner, Michael Stark, in Toronto in June, Canada's first same-sex marriage. ‘It's sickening, it's obnoxious and it's got to stop.' [...] He accused the Catholic church of preaching ‘religious intolerance,' adding, ‘The Charter of Rights trumps the Bible.'"

As a young Canadian social conservative, I have a few choice words for Mr. Leshner's arrogance in asserting a pan-sexual hedonistic legal positivism over the wisdom and authority of the Natural Law. However, I think I will save this response for an American publication, where at least the First Ammendment protects my freedom of religion and expression. For while some might dismiss Mr. Leshner's threats as empty, I cannot share this optimism.

Mr. Leshner is a Crown Attorney in Toronto - Canada's largest city, and one of its most politically influential ones. As such, Mr. Leshner is part of the judicial culture that usurped the role of our democratically elected legislature in bringing about the legalization of same-sex marriage. Thus in reading between the lines, I am reluctant to dismiss Mr. Leshner's threats as those of your average homosexual activist. As he has already shown, he more than capable of carrying them out in our current milieu of judicial activism.

Nevertheless, what has Bishop Plouffe done to deserve what appears to be a veiled threat of legal action? His words are nowhere as politically incorrect as those of his counterpart in Calgary. Nor is Bishop Plouffe, like some fundamentalist Baptist ministers I have encountered since moving to the United States, encouraging his flock to picket homosexual funerals with "God hates Fags" placards. Knowing His Excellency well, I am certain he condemns such religiously inspired hate. After all, Christ preaches the Gospel of Love, calling all sinners to conversion.

Rather, Bishop Plouffe simply reminds politicians claiming to be Catholic of their moral obligation to behave as Catholics in Canada's legislative assemblies. According to the Second Vatican Council, this is one of the three main functions of the Catholic episcopate, namely, to teach the Catholic Faith to the Church's adherents. Almost all religions make similar requirements of their clergy.

Unfortunately, in the opinion of at least one prominent homosexual legal activist, Bishop Plouffe's words now constitute religious intolerance under a new judicial oligarchy in which the feelings of sexual minorities trump religious rights and freedoms. So much for our Prime Minister's promise to protect religious freedom in Canada. As a young Canadian social conservative, I feel more secure in the United States where the First Amendment guarantees my freedom of religious expression. And unlike Canada's political leadership, President Bush both respects the religious convictions of all Americans and possesses the strength of character to live according to his own.

Pete Vere, JCL is a canon lawyer and a Catholic social and religious commentator from Sudbury, Ontario. He now writes from Nokomis, Florida, where he and his family enjoy no state income tax along with life within walking distance of the Gulf of Mexico. His work has been published in numerous Canadian and American Catholic publications.

Enter Stage Right -- http://www.enterstageright.com


TOPICS: Canada; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: canada; catholiclist; homosexualagenda; iccl; incitementtohatred; ireland; religiousfreedom; religiouspersecution; uk; vatican
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Legal warning to church on gay stance

Legal warning to church on gay stance

Liam Reid
02/08/2003

Clergy and bishops who distribute the Vatican's latest publication describing homosexual activity as "evil" could face prosecution under incitement to hatred legislation.

The Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) has warned that the language in the 12-page booklet is so strong it could be interpreted as being in breach of the Act.

Published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, it states that Catholics have a duty to oppose the introduction and operation of legislation recognising same-sex unions. It identifies politicians as having a duty to vote against any such moves.

According to the document, Catholic teaching states that while homosexuals should be treated with "respect, compassion and sensitivity", homosexuality was "objectively disordered".

"Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimisation of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalisation of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil," it states.

It also claims that allowing children to be adopted into same-sex unions would mean "doing violence to these children". This would place them "in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development".

Ms Aisling Reidy, director of the ICCL, warned yesterday that the statement could be in violation of the 1989 Incitement to Hatred Act. Those convicted under the Act can face jail terms of up to six months.

"The document itself may not violate the Act, but if you were to use the document to say that gays are evil, it is likely to give rise to hatred, which is against the Act," according to Ms Reidy. "The wording is very strong and certainly goes against the spirit of the legislation."

Under the Act literature which is threatening, abusive or insulting, linked with the intent of stirring up hatred, is illegal.


© The Irish Times


1 posted on 08/04/2003 9:31:07 AM PDT by Polycarp
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To: .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Antoninus; aposiopetic; Aquinasfan; ...
This may be THE issue that ushers in the persecution of the Church.

(If your church is not being persecuted in the coming wave of hatred, flee that church. It is apostate.)

2 posted on 08/04/2003 9:32:52 AM PDT by Polycarp (Let the persecutions begin!)
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To: Polycarp
If your church is not being persecuted in the coming wave of hatred, flee that church. It is apostate.

***

Well said.

I'm a little scared, but I know you are a brave defender of our Faith.
3 posted on 08/04/2003 9:40:24 AM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: Polycarp
INTREP
4 posted on 08/04/2003 9:42:14 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Polycarp
Would it be fair to say that this trend is a side effect of sola scriptura?
5 posted on 08/04/2003 9:43:26 AM PDT by polemikos (This Space for Rant)
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To: Polycarp
>> ‘The Charter of Rights trumps the Bible.' <<

Sickening. Man is he going to choke on those words come Judgment Day.
6 posted on 08/04/2003 9:48:32 AM PDT by appalachian_dweller (Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. – JC Watts)
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To: Polycarp
Why doesn't Canada split into an eastern French-style country & a western American-style country?
7 posted on 08/04/2003 9:54:37 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: Sloth
It has been tried and very nearly happened. The dilemma is that the French-speaking electorate now realizes that they need the English-speaking electorate's tax revenues to survive.
8 posted on 08/04/2003 9:59:00 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Polycarp
‘It's sickening, it's obnoxious and it's got to stop.'

And a man lusting after another mans hairy anus is not?
"Woe to those who call evil good, and call good evil." -- Christ.
Prophacy said the liberal legions would be attempting to do this as we come closer to the end of the age. Israel becomming a nation once more started the count down, and Satan knows he has but little time to destroy as many souls as he can. Satan and his liberal legions have been working over time.
The church was warned over 2000 years ago that they were comming. They never should have let Satan in the door. They should have stuck clearly with the words givin to them by the Alpha-Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Great Star of David. They now sow what they have reaped.

9 posted on 08/04/2003 10:04:27 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("He who controls communications rules the world." - Adolf Hitler)
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To: Polycarp; dansangel
Let's hope that we are ready for this. You are right this could be the beginning of the end... The true and faithful will be counted in small numbers.
10 posted on 08/04/2003 10:06:36 AM PDT by .45MAN
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To: Polycarp
It also claims that allowing children to be adopted into same-sex unions would mean "doing violence to these children". This would place them "in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development".

Yeh. There's no "diversity." According to the sodomites themselves, children cannot live in a world that's not "diverse" enough.

11 posted on 08/04/2003 10:09:03 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("He who controls communications rules the world." - Adolf Hitler)
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To: .45MAN
Let's hope that we are ready for this. You are right this could be the beginning of the end... The true and faithful will be counted in small numbers.

That's what the rapture is for. Imagine a world without the rightous restrainers. Sin will abound, and those left to live through it will recieve no aid.

12 posted on 08/04/2003 10:12:20 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("He who controls communications rules the world." - Adolf Hitler)
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To: Polycarp
‘The Charter of Rights trumps the Bible.'"

Maybe in this world. But I wouldn't count on its protection in the next.

Is persecution of Catholics coming? The notion doesn't seem so far-fetched anymore.

13 posted on 08/04/2003 10:18:07 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: sinkspur
Still think it can't happen here?

Still think Santorum was wrong?

Still think its only about what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom?

Still have the unmitigated gall to imply that anyone who opposed the SCOTUS decision "just wants to lock up homos"?

You, along with all the other FReepers who denigrated those who opposed Lawrence and supported Santorum, were wrong then, as each passing day and international headline proves over and over.

You all have got a lot of apologies to make. But I doubt they'll be forthcoming.

(BTW, I'd hate to go to judgement knowing I blew it on the single most important issue of my generation. Especially as an ordained minister of the Church.)

14 posted on 08/04/2003 10:19:31 AM PDT by Polycarp (Let the persecutions begin!)
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To: concerned about politics
Hate to disappoint you, but if suffering was good enough for Jesus Christ, its good enough for us too. There's no biblical evidence to support this phony, recently invented fantasy of a "Rapture" in the fashion the myth-tellers of fundamental protestantism have conjured up.
15 posted on 08/04/2003 10:23:36 AM PDT by Polycarp (Let the persecutions begin!)
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To: Polycarp
Hate to disappoint you, but if suffering was good enough for Jesus Christ, its good enough for us too. There's no biblical evidence to support this phony, recently invented fantasy of a "Rapture" in the fashion the myth-tellers of fundamental protestantism have conjured up.

"There will be scoffers in those days, saying 'Where is the promose of his comming'?"

16 posted on 08/04/2003 10:27:25 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("He who controls communications rules the world." - Adolf Hitler)
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To: Polycarp
"Welcome to Canada. Do you have any contraband?

No Sir all I have are my clothes and this Bible.

Put your hands on your head and step out of the car!"

17 posted on 08/04/2003 10:27:45 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: concerned about politics
LOL! I believe He is coming too, so find another supposedly applicable derogatory proof text. I deny the Rapture the way you think it will happen according to YOPIOS, not the Second Coming.
18 posted on 08/04/2003 10:29:18 AM PDT by Polycarp (Let the persecutions begin!)
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To: Polycarp
Feel better? Your sneering contempt oozes through the screen, Brian, in this post, as in so many others with which you pollute this forum.

You distort my views, as usual, but it's more important for you to jump offside in your glee to try to show me up.

You're a kid, Brian, a kid eaten up with hate.

You'd better deal with it before it breaks out in violence.

19 posted on 08/04/2003 10:35:41 AM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: Polycarp
People of faith should prepare themselves for the coming inquisition.
20 posted on 08/04/2003 10:37:54 AM PDT by Flashman_at_the_charge
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