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Cleveland: Police want bigger guns. Mayor refuses fears it would upset residents
The Cincinnati Enquirer ^
| Aug 03, 2003
| The Associated Press
Posted on 08/03/2003 2:23:40 PM PDT by yankeedame
Sunday, August 3, 2003
Cleveland police want bigger guns
The Associated Press
CLEVELAND - City police want more powerful handguns that fire bigger bullets, saying they would be better at stopping dangerous suspects, but the campaign has stalled amid the police shooting deaths of six civilians last year.
Mayor Jane Campbell won't buy the larger guns because she's afraid of upsetting residents who don't trust officers, police union president Bob Beck said.
Beck wants the city to replace the department's Smith and Wesson 9 mm handguns with Glock .40-caliber guns.
City Safety Director James Draper said the 9 mm weapons are so dependable that two-thirds of the police departments in the country use them, he said.
"It was not a political issue. It was a safety issue," Draper said. "My concern is our police officers don't get hurt and die and neither do our citizens."
Telephone messages were left Saturday with members of Campbell's press office.
The .40-caliber bullets are heavier and slightly wider, so they would inflict more damage and be more likely to make a suspect fall, Beck said. Both guns are semiautomatic weapons, not revolvers.
"We're having suspects that are hit and still shooting," Beck said. "This is a necessary piece of equipment that will help police defend themselves."
TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; leo
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To: riverrunner
The 9mm with good bullets works as well as any other hand gun. The trouble is most police officers are poor shots don't practice enough nor train enough. ***
The 9mm is nothing more than a poor coyp of a .38 Special. Every time it is used, it exhibits it incapability. That cops do not train enough is true enough.
To: yankeedame
HeadlineResidents want bigger guns also.
22
posted on
08/03/2003 4:43:24 PM PDT
by
Just another Joe
(FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
To: Just another Joe
****Residents want bigger guns also.***
Why don't they all, residents and police just order some pills off a porn web site?
23
posted on
08/03/2003 4:51:38 PM PDT
by
Ruy Dias de Bivar
(When someone burns a cross on your lawn the best firehose is an AK-47.)
To: Lion Den Dan
You may be thinking of a 9MM from over 75 years ago.
Corbon 9mm+P/115gr JHP 1350fps 91% one shot stops
24
posted on
08/03/2003 4:51:42 PM PDT
by
Shooter 2.5
(Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
To: pacman50
Ping
25
posted on
08/03/2003 4:54:26 PM PDT
by
cmsgop
(If you Spinkle When You Tinkle,...Be a Sweetie and Wipe the Seatie......)
To: yankeedame
"she's afraid of upsetting residents who don't trust officers, police union president Bob Beck said"
"Those darn citizens owe us an apology... and they'd better make it snappy" Beck added.
26
posted on
08/03/2003 5:02:20 PM PDT
by
ZviTheWise
("Everybody in this house needs to calm down and eat some fruit or something." -- Mel Gibson, "Signs")
To: Cobra64
"This is the most powerful handgun in the world..." "....and the recoil will blow my hand clean off."
27
posted on
08/03/2003 5:02:31 PM PDT
by
Plutarch
To: Shooter 2.5
Marshall and Sanow stats are proven BS. 115gr +P+ from Corbon or anyone else is about the worst load there is in 9mm.
28
posted on
08/03/2003 5:11:13 PM PDT
by
CGTRWK
To: riverrunner
Give me 9mm Jacketed Hollow Points, and the guy you hit will go down. Unfortunately most police forces cannot use hollow points, but full metal jacketed rounds.
29
posted on
08/03/2003 5:16:45 PM PDT
by
Fee
To: Shooter 2.5
I wonder if Bryce ever was assigned to the American Embassy in Havana.
I had a Cuban friend in Fla that related to me he used to go to the local carnival in Havana ( pre- Castro). An FBI agent assigned to the Embassy would spend time at the shooting arcade and demonstrate to the kids his ability to draw and fire his revolver in a blur. My friend said he was the best he had ever seen.
30
posted on
08/03/2003 5:21:24 PM PDT
by
Vinnie
To: Shooter 2.5
Winchester Ranger Talons are also very very good 9mm's. Supposed to be law enforcement only, but easy to find.. And legal to own.
Best 9mm there is I think, with Corbon up there too.
31
posted on
08/03/2003 5:23:01 PM PDT
by
Monty22
To: Shooter 2.5
What a great story.
Thanks for posting it!
32
posted on
08/03/2003 5:23:23 PM PDT
by
Gritty
To: Vinnie; Gritty; Eaker
33
posted on
08/03/2003 6:34:54 PM PDT
by
Shooter 2.5
(Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
To: CGTRWK
I didn't get that from Marshall and Sanow.
It's just one example that ammo has changed in the last 75 years.
34
posted on
08/03/2003 6:37:12 PM PDT
by
Shooter 2.5
(Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
To: Vinnie
The law enforcement officers we had back then were definitely a different breed than we have now.
I had a friend remark some time ago when he was out prairie hunting. He said that even a couple of days living with a rifle close at hand sharpened up his skills. He said he could imagine what 24/7 for years would do.
35
posted on
08/03/2003 6:42:48 PM PDT
by
Shooter 2.5
(Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
To: Shooter 2.5
Deciding some cartridge delivers "xx percent one shot stops" is Marshall and Sanow's brand of junk science.
36
posted on
08/03/2003 6:55:28 PM PDT
by
CGTRWK
To: CGTRWK
If you gather X number of shootings with a particular load and find out it stopped a criminal Y number of times, you can find out the percentage.
If you understand the next experiment was with goats, that they shot X number of goats with a particular load and find out it stopped the goats Y number of times, you can find out the percentage.
ETC.
37
posted on
08/03/2003 7:26:53 PM PDT
by
Shooter 2.5
(Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
To: glock rocks
You had best get over here and read this. (in other words...Ping)
38
posted on
08/03/2003 7:56:09 PM PDT
by
tubebender
(FReepin Awesome...)
Comment #39 Removed by Moderator
To: Shooter 2.5
91% one shot stops ******
You are welcome to your belief. I hope you never have the opportunity to discover how wrong you are.
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