Boy Scouts' use of Balboa Park land ruled unconstitutional

San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 7/31/03 | Ray Huard

[lowbridge]

Boy Scouts' use of Balboa Park land ruled unconstitutional

Judge says use violates separation of church and state
By Ray Huard
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
2:29 p.m., July 31, 2003

The Boy Scouts' lease of public land in San Diego's Balboa Park is unconstitutional, a federal judge decided in a ruling released Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. said the Scouts' lease of the 18-acre Camp Balboa in Balboa Park violates provisions in the U.S. and state constitutions governing the separation of church and state.

Jones said the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because the Scouts require members to profess a belief in God.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued over the lease in August 2000 on behalf of a lesbian couple and an agnostic couple and their son.

Deputy City Attorney John Mullen issued a statement that said "the City Attorney's Office will analyze the decision and seek direction from the City Council."

The council will review the ruling in a closed session Tuesday, Mullen said.

A lawyer for the ACLU, Jordan Budd, said the council should cancel its lease with the Scouts unless the Scouts change their policies against admitting homosexuals and requiring members to express a belief in God.

"We believe it is long past time for the City Council to end its affiliation with this discriminatory organization and to keep open this public parkland for the use of all citizens of San Diego on a fair and equal basis and not just those citizens preferred by the Boy Scouts," Budd said.

The Boy Scouts have a 50-year, $1-a-year lease that is due to expire in 2007. The City Council in December renewed the lease at the Scouts' request for 25 years, with a city option to extend the lease an additional 15 years.

Under terms of the lease, the Scouts must spend $1.7 million over the next seven years to upgrade Camp Balboa. The Scouts also are required to pay the city an annual administrative fee initially set at $2,500.

In a press release, the Desert Pacific Council of the Boy Scouts of America expressed disappointment with the judge's ruling.

The council used its own money to construct and maintain Camp Balboa, according to the release, building nine camp sites, bringing water and power to the property, and building a swimming pool, parking lot, restroom and showers, meeting rooms, and a residence and office for a camp ranger.

[Glenn]

Dream on (I think).

You sure sound confused.

No "dream on" to it. The law and the trends are against Bush because the rest of his party capitulates to their counterparts. If they had any b*lls, we'd have some judges in the federal court by now. There's your trend. They gave into the Dems when the Dems were in power. Now they are giving into them when they are not in power.

I'll say it again: We're going down and the government is doing everything it can to make it happen.

[Myrddin]

I remember that scandal. I was still living in San Diego when it happened. My last trip to Mataguay was as an adult advisor for the troop sponsored by my church. I slept in the back of my pickup truck for 2 nights. The advisor who had been scheduled for the week had a 2 day business trip, so I provided supervision for a couple nights. It is a nice camp.

[RonF]

If you profess a belief in any established religion, you are welcome in Scouting. If you profess no belief in any established religion, but are willing to go so far as to say that you think that there must be some kind of power beyond the material, one that does not operate on the material plane but that has rules that we are accountable to, you pass. Even if that power is not incarnate in any kind of "God" and if you're not too sure about the rules. You are acceptable if you've made up your own religion and think that God resides in tree in your front yard. About the only thing that won't fly is that if you definitely state that "there is no God" and that there's no such thing as a supernatural power.

[RonF]

O.K. So the judge interprets "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" to mean that no Government agency can sign a contract with any religious agency, or grant it any privileges. Take this to it's logical and by no means extreme conclusion, and you'll see the property tax exemption taken from all religiously affiliated organizations (churches, etc.).

So. Now, does the BSA take this up on appeal? The BSA has never lost in the Supreme Court. I think that the judge has this wrong on the merits on the law.

[b9]

>>> I rode my bicycle from Chula Vista to places as far away as San Vicente reservoir<<<

Wow...amazing!
We live in Chula Vista...it's growing so fast.
We're not quite ready to give up the perfect weather yet.

[El Gato]

Jones said the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because the Scouts require members to profess a belief in God

They are also a Congressionally chartered organization, like the American Legion or the Veterans of Foreign Wars. In case the judge never noticed. The Supreme Court and Congress start their sessions with a prayer, does that make them unconstitutional as well? The Scouts don't attempt to tell anyone which God to believe in, or for that matter to even believe in God, just to do their duty to God, as they the individual sees it. There are scout organizations affilliated with virtually all religions, including dozens of Christian denominations from Baptists to Prebyterians, African Methodist Ephicapilians to Mormons (and stopping by the Seventh Day Adventists on the way) , the Baha'i Faith, various branches of Judahism, various branches of Islam, Budhists, Hindus and others.

The "requires belief in God must come from these two requirments:

Scout Oath (or Promise)
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

or this part of the Scout Law

REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

That last is really bad isn't it? "Respects the beliefs of others."

Of course the real beef with the Boy Scouts is their stand on homosexuality. Plus maybe a little of their stand on firearms and firearms training

[El Gato]

the Christian Right and their pet organizations

What about all those Muslim Scouts, Jewish Scouts, Hindu Scouts and Buddist Scouts?

The legal question doesn't revolve around religion at all. The question is whether or not the "sweetheart deal" is in the public interest. For generations the answer was yes. It's also not a question for the courts, but rather for legislatures, in this case a city council.

[El Gato]

</i>Christian bastards not welcome</i> The Scouts are not a "Christian" organization. They fully welcome Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Buddits, amoung others. Part of their law requires "respecting the beliefs of others". No, what the liberals can't stand about the scouts is their Americanism and their wholesomeness. The liberal are for internationalism and debauchery.

[PatrioticAmerican]

They might accept them, but faith to God is part of the Boy Scout way of life and heritage. Muslims are not a religion, but pray to a rock. Buddists don't believe in the God, but reserve the right to not believe or to believe. Jews have faith in God, but not Jesus. Hindus, well, they think cows are their ancestors.

So, except for the Jews, the BSA may have them in their ranks, but they have no faith in God. The BSA may not be Christian in a direct sense, but they are in the sense that the religions of faith to God, except for the Jews, are Christian.

The BSA isn't just a camping society of young boys and men, and, if that is what you think, you don't know the BSA.

[gitmo]

For me this sets the following precedent: if you profess a belief in (a) God, you are ineligible for any govt benefits.

or, in this case, to do business with your own government.

[El Gato]

you don't know the BSA.

From the Scout Law :

"He respects the beliefs of others".

Apparently it you sir, who does not know the BSA.

[sten]

Well, using this logic, if a legal entity were to have a belief in a G-d like figure, and profess it, then they would be denied any governmental contracts.

Therefore, a Christian could be denied a drivers license if they have any indication of their faith displayed on their vehicle.

[b9]

This is all so looney it gives me the shivvers.
It's like a bad dream and I can't wake up.

Did you ever in your wildest dreams in the last 20-30 years expect you'd have to defend the principles of the BOY SCOUTS of all things?!!!

Wonder how soon they'll be changing our currency.
"In God We Trust"
It really is a war, isn't it.

[Orlando]

It is.

Have anybody seen or heard of any elected-officals
on any level defending the BSA ?
What is it that the national media is not reporting this ?
like FOX or radio talk shows like Rush,Sean,Savage,Reagan,etc....? They should be defending
the little boys. just wondering

[Myrddin]

I was in Chula Vista last weekend. Hilltop High class of 1973 30th reunion. My parents still live in CV.

[b9]

Well, we're about 4 blocks from Hilltop High!

Small woild, huh.

[Myrddin]

My mother-in-law graduated from Chula Vista High before Hilltop was built. Her younger brother (now deceased) was in one of the first classes to attend Hilltop. My wife is a graduate of Bonita Vista High.

Your proximity to the Hilltop campus means you will be hearing the drum section of the band doing the summer training sessions. Before H street was completed, I marched down Claire Ave from I St to Via De Laurencio every afternoon from September through December. Evenings were spent on the football field to practice for half-time shows. Mornings started at 5:00 AM for trumpet section practice in the band room.

Take a drive down Peppertree Lane. After the first big dip, there is a big, semi-circular house on the right. That belonged to my wife's uncle. He started a little company known as Kelco. Today, the house is occupied by the young lady who was the flower girl at my wedding and her husband.

My wife's grandfather came to Chula Vista around 1911. He had the opportunity to buy a big piece of swampy land for $500, but turned it down. That land is known as the Bonita Valley today. We have quite a bit of family history tied up in Chula Vista.

[Sam Cree]

Are you Ok with it being justified with the 1st amendment?

[b9]

That must've been quite a decision to transplant yourselves from Chula Vista to Idaho....
It's changed soooo much here in the last several years.
Unfortunately the Hilltop schools aren't anywhere near as good anymore...our son graduated from Bonita Vista
in '96 and our daughter from Coronado last year.
I'm still a Colorado girl in my mind, where I grew up...
my husband's a Navy brat from San Rafael.
Yep, we do hear the Hilltop band!
You must be so proud of your son in Kuwait.
Talk about the ultimate Boy Scout! Is he married?

[ontos-on]

Napoleon A. Jones, Jr. (THE PREDICTABLE BIOGRAPHY OF A MONSTER) U.S. District Court Judge Napoleon Jones graduated in 1967 with a master's degree in Social Work. Five years before the Africana Studies Department was established, Jones founded and became the first president of SDSU's Black Student Council. Additionally, Jones was a member of Kappa Alpha Psi which was the first African-American fraternity. In 1994, he was appointed by President Clinton to the United States District Court for the Southern District of California.

This is the reason that differences with less conservative republicans should never result in a vote for a disruptor such as Perot.