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The perfect IT Education? (IT/Nerd Alert)

Posted on 07/27/2003 9:24:31 AM PDT by BushCountry

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To: SlickWillard
<html>

<head>
<title>WHY JAVASCRIPT SUCKS MONKEY TURDS</title>
<center><t1>WHY JAVASCRIPT SUCKS MONKEY TURDS</t1></center>

<pre>

<script>

function test() {

  var A=document.forms[0].A.value;
  var B=document.forms[0].B.value;
  var C=document.forms[0].C.value;
  var D=document.forms[0].D.value;

  C=(B*A + A)*B;
  D=(B*A + +A)*B;

  document.forms[0].A.value=A;
  document.forms[0].B.value=B;
  document.forms[0].C.value=C;
  document.forms[0].D.value=D;
  return;

}

</script>

</pre>
</head>



<body>

<form>


A <input type="text" name="A" value="123"><br><br>
B <input type="text" name="B" value="0.046">
<br><br>
C=(B*A+A)*B
 <input type="button" value="calculate" onclick="test()"><br><br>


C:
<input type="text" name="C" size="100" >
<br><br>
SLIGHTLY MORE CORRECT RESULT <input type="text" name="D" size="100">
</form>

</body>

</html>


101 posted on 07/31/2003 8:03:22 PM PDT by dr_who_2
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To: SlickWillard
Hmmm... Have you tried using the BGSOUND tag? But I digress. If you have the exact code you are using, and post it here, I could debug it for ya :0)
102 posted on 07/31/2003 8:04:41 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (So, I'm in the park wondering why frisbees get larger as they get closer when suddenly, it hits me..)
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To: SlickWillard
ok, I think I have an idea - looking at the reference for teh EMBED Tag on MSDN, I stumbled upon a "Behavior" Attribute for the EMBED Tag that allows you to tell it to download first, and notify a callback function when the download is complete...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/objects/embed.asp

Select "Behaviours", and check it out - it may help... Good luck!
103 posted on 07/31/2003 8:26:35 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (So, I'm in the park wondering why frisbees get larger as they get closer when suddenly, it hits me..)
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To: zeromus

104 posted on 07/31/2003 8:59:36 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: SlickWillard
I know next to nothing about Javascript, but I would change all the external references to local references (C:\somtething.htm) and debug it from there.
105 posted on 07/31/2003 9:24:41 PM PDT by djf
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To: Myrddin
they wont notice the difference until next year when theyre on a new budget and can afford to spend the time to fix it.
106 posted on 07/31/2003 9:26:42 PM PDT by zeromus
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To: dr_who_2
You win the prize for writing the best code possible in the worst language possible!

Anybody ever see the Fortran program that prints itself? Been years...
107 posted on 07/31/2003 9:29:14 PM PDT by djf
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To: zeromus

108 posted on 07/31/2003 9:30:57 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: zeromus
they wont notice the difference until next year when theyre on a new budget and can afford to spend the time to fix it.

If I was your customer, there would be a requirements traceability matrix and an acceptance test plan. You wouldn't get paid until the requirements were satisfied 100% per the contract. There are plenty of people in India willing to write crappy code at lower rates.

109 posted on 07/31/2003 9:48:19 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
If my customers were your customers, they wouldnt know what the hell they really wanted no matter how carefully you spelled it out for them in advance. I keep telling my bosses that 95% of our job is ruthlessly interrogating the customers ahead of time and making them think clearly, but I am invariably foiled when I discover that they lack the ability to think clearly at all. But I am pretty sure I am at the bottom of the food chain.

There are plenty of people in India willing to write crappy code at lower rates.

Now think about that. Just recently theres all this talk of people angry and puzzled by alot of this sort of work going to india. Because there is alot of it--alot of demand for crappy code. How can you blame us for trying to deliver that?

110 posted on 07/31/2003 9:54:42 PM PDT by zeromus
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To: Chad Fairbanks; SlickWillard
Have you guys heard of SitePoint? I stumbled across it a few weeks ago and it has great articles and forums that may interest you. Friendly, helpful folks too.
111 posted on 07/31/2003 9:56:33 PM PDT by Jen
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To: zeromus
I had a German customer who insisted on "clarification" of a requirements document. His "clarifications" kept expanding the scope of the project. He didn't get that for free. It was all quantified, test plans were updated, delivery dates were modified and supplemental financing was contractually locked down before we proceeded. The customer really hated being locked down. He also hated working under American contract law. German law would have permitted his "clarifications" to force a German firm to perform what was implied to be in the final product instead of the American contract approach of supplying only what was explicitly called out in the contract.

I suspect the quantity of crappy code that is being produced by U.S. programmers has lowered the expectation of U.S. based businesses. They expect poor quality and are happy to pay reduced rates for equivalently crappy code from India.

The first important step with a customer is getting a good requirements document. Once they sign off on it, you proceed to requirements analysis and prelim design. You often catch impossible or contradictory requirements at this step. I've seen projects melt down into disaster because the project manager agreed to contradictory requirements. Good systems and software takes much more than a programmer hacking away.

112 posted on 07/31/2003 10:24:28 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
Now what do you do when we discover "clarifications" but do not discover "more money"?

We go ahead and do it as best we can, and as more clarifications come in, without any more money, everything gets more rushed and sucks more. And even if more money comes in, as time goes on, the necessity of using what has already been worked on forces things to get even stranger.

I am telling you, this all depends on where you are in the food chain and how professional your customers are. Some customers who are lazy slobs about things need consultants that are lazy slobs also. They just get along better.

I eventually decided the only way to avoid this mess was to find a job where we did things right (i.e. move up the foodchain). Havent managed to find one of those yet.

113 posted on 07/31/2003 10:39:51 PM PDT by zeromus
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To: nutmeg
.
114 posted on 07/31/2003 10:43:00 PM PDT by nutmeg (Is the DemocRATic party extinct yet?)
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To: zeromus
Now what do you do when we discover "clarifications" but do not discover "more money"?

The answer depends on how you structured your contract. If it is a fixed firm price, the answer is NO. If it is a time & materials, you work the original requirements first. If the customer still has money in the budget and wants to spend it on the clarifications, then do it. If it is a cost plus fixed fee, then work the requirements first, then review the remaining budget e.g. total budget-fixed fee-bills to date. Thats what you have left to offer. Identify the "clarifications", estimate the time and money required for each "clarification" and prioritize the additional work with the customer. Make sure the requirements and acceptance criteria are well understood and documented in a supplemental contract.

Here's another horror story for you. A work group on my floor was enroute to a customer site to do final delivery. For the entire period of the contract, the customer had been using SunOS4 and all the software was developed and tested on SunOS4. They arrived at the customer site to discover that all the machines had been "updated" to Solaris a.k.a SunOS5. They had not put a configuration control elements into their contract. The customer had not violated the contract by doing this upgrade, but the software was perfectly useless. It cost a major wad of cash to port and killed all the profit in the project.

Justice prevailed. I had the same people for my customer, but a different set of projects. My contract locked down the OS release, OS patches, specific machines, IP addresses, database release and schema, and C compiler release. In short, I locked down EVERYTHING they could possibly touch that would impact the delivery. It was contractually locked down until they signed the acceptance document or terminated for convenience. The customer hated being locked down, but they fully understood why it was being such a horse's backside about the config management. We delivered a feature complete product that met every item in the requirements traceability matrix and every item in the acceptance test plan. The customer signed off the project.

My predecessor on this project had blown $178,000 of the customer's money and delivered 5 sheets of blueline notes of indicipherable chickenscratch. The customer had issued a "termination for default". My predecessor was escorted out of the office with his belongings in a box. My company was at risk of losing the ability to do ANY work with local governments across the U.S. Doing the job right cost the company almost $700,000. The people who did the initial requirements and project estimates were genuine screwups. My predecessor moved on to be a principal in a new company that has since folded.

115 posted on 07/31/2003 11:41:53 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
BUMP for more nerdy responses. };O)
116 posted on 08/01/2003 4:07:58 AM PDT by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: BushCountry
Add another class : Fundamentals of networking I and II.

I: Covers IPv4 and IPv6 protocols, addressing and subnetting; Overview on switching and routing technologies; basic firewall principles and NAT translation. Network topologies and the principles of the data network stack (OSI and IP network reference models)

II : Basic overview of various LAN/WAN technologies; basic cisco switch/router configuration (industry standard tech); basic firewall implementation technologies (Checkpoint, rule contruction and syntax)

117 posted on 08/01/2003 4:43:01 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: BushCountry
As someone who teaches computers in a two-year college, maybe I can explain some things. "Introduction to computers and computing," is usually a pre-requisite for any degree these days. They are offered an opportunity to test out of it.

What you fail to consider is that there do exist students entering 2 year degree programs who have virtually no computer skills. Maybe they can send an e-mail and do some things on the Internet. They don't really know what happens but they know where to click. And many who may know some basic skills but not others. I'd say the vast majority don't know the difference between an operating system and an application. A good many don't know how to save e-mails, basic word processing. Very few have worked at all with spreadsheets, databases, etc. The difference between memory and disk storage, absolutely no idea. That's the reality of many of the students walking in the doors in my college. You really think I should start with network security when the students don't know how to properly create, save a Word document and be able to find it again later?

Granted those going into IT should know these things, and most do. For those students it's an easy A or they can place out of it. But you have to remember that that course is nearly always a campus-wide pre-req. And many of the students do need to know the very basics of how to use a computer.

118 posted on 08/01/2003 5:19:37 AM PDT by PFC
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To: PFC
What you fail to consider is that there do exist students entering 2 year degree programs who have virtually no computer skills.

You brought up an excellent point, before students are allow to enter the perfect I/T program they would have to meet basic computer aptitude requirements. Of course students will be allowed to take non-degreed courses to reach these requirements and students would be allowed to test out.

I have taught several computer courses and the biggest stumbling block to achieving true classroom success has been the acceptance of students with virtually no computer skills. The last career institute I taught had students that were fiftyish with no computer experience and were actually afraid of computers.

Imagine a fast track computer program that teaches Electronics (DC, AC & Digital), CompTIA's HW, SW & Networking, Novell CNA, and MCSE programs in less than 13 months to students that never touched a mouse before. The students that never touched a computer were a hinderance and drag on the class.

119 posted on 08/01/2003 6:24:02 AM PDT by BushCountry (To the last, I will grapple with Democrats. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at Liberals.)
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To: brianl703
Troubleshooting microwave ovens is easy: place head in oven, turn oven on to MAX...

if you get a headache and smoke starts coming out of your ears, the oven is OK. If smoke comes out of your nose and you don't get a headache, change the magnetron.

120 posted on 08/01/2003 6:33:44 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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