I can't imagine why anyone pays the slightest attention to this gnarled little troll anymore.
Posted on 07/27/2003 7:26:55 AM PDT by Diago
Presidential Candidate Kucinich Attacks Leading Pro-Life Lawmaker
by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor July 21, 2003
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- When Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) decided to run for president, he upset the pro-life community by abandoning his long-held pro-life beliefs. Now, he's having a hard time selling his newfound pro-abortion position.
In an attempt to distance himself from his former pro-life voting record, Kucinich accused a leading pro-life member of Congress of wanting to put women in jail who have had abortions.
In an interview with Chris Matthews on MSNBC's "Hardball" last Tuesday, Kucinich said he disagreed with criminalizing abortion and that "Congress has been increasingly moving in the direction towards criminalization."
Matthews immediately pounced on the statement and asked Kucinich to "Name a Congressperson who supports putting people in jail for having an abortion. Name one."
Kucinich tried twice to divert the question but Matthews didn't budge.
"You didn't say that. You said criminalize it. You said put a person in jail for having an abortion. Do you believe any member of Congress wants to do that?"
Despite another attempt to dodge the question, Kucinich finally caved in under Matthews' pressure.
"I think there are members of Congress who want to do that. That's absolutely right ... I think Chris Smith would support it," Kucinich answered.
"Well, that's a nice subjective move," Matthews retorted. "But you don't have his testimony supporting it. We’ll check with him on that. I think it’s a rotten thing to say."
The next day, Matthews had pro-life Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) on as a guest. When asked whether he supported putting women in jail who have had abortions, Smith's reply was crystal clear.
"Absolutely not. That was a very irresponsible and a presumptuous statement on the part of Mr. Kucinich. He’s dead wrong," Smith said. "Legislation, including the partial-birth abortion ban which is making its way through Congress and all of the previous bills that have gone forward, some of which were vetoed by Bill Clinton, have an explicit piece of language in there that says no woman will be prosecuted under this act. That is the intent of what we tried to do with all of our legislation and even pre-Roe v. Wade."
Matthews inquired about the logic behind the position.
"Without a doubt, we believe that these women are co-victims with the babies," Smith said. "Very often, women are under enormous pressure to have an abortion. They may be frightened. They’re very vulnerable."
After appearing on the show, Kucinich apparently realized his mistake and apologized to Congressman Smith.
Matthews asked, "Did he admit it had been wrong?" "Yes, I think he thinks that this is where we’re going in the pro-life movement. And it is part of a red herring argument that the pro-abortion forces have been trying to sell for the last 20 years," Smith said.
"He seemed very uncomfortable with the fact that he named my name. And you know, I believe in human rights. I believe in helping women. And we’re all about reconciliation. That’s what the women need. They need help. And hopefully, you know, crisis pregnancy centers, 4,000-strong throughout the country on a daily basis are helping women. Many of the women who man those centers have previously had abortions," Smith added.
When asked, Smith said he knew of no members of Congress who want to put women in jail for having abortions.
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MSNBC Transcripts:
"Hardball with Chris Matthews" for July 15
MATTHEWS: We’re back with more “Political Buzz” with Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, who’s running for president, and Duncan Hunter.
Here’s the Congressman Kucinich earlier today addressing the Human Rights Campaign, a gay and lesbian political advocacy group..
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KUCINICH: I would nominate any gay to the Supreme Court, or lesbian or bisexual or transgendered person to the Supreme Court, as long as they were ready to uphold Roe v. Wade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: What are we to make of that statement, Congressman Kucinich?
KUCINICH: You’re to make of it that equality before the law is an essential and cardinal principle of our government. And in addition to that, women in our society will never truly have equality if Roe v. Wade is repealed, and so I’m take a stand of behalf of equality for everyone.
MATTHEWS: But it just looks like the most patent kind of pandering. You’re saying the only issue that matters to you in terms of picking a Supreme Court justice, in terms of the person’s background, the only issue that matters to you is an issue on which you took a 180 degree different position throughout your career. In other words, you will only accept judges on the Supreme Court who totally disagreed with you your entire life until recently when you decided to run for president and go national.
KUCINICH: Actually, Chris, what I’m saying here is that I believe that upholding Roe v. Wade...
MATTHEWS: But you were always against it. Now you’re for it and saying if a judge is against it, they can be gay, straight, transgender, whatever, as long as they agree with you this instant and they didn’t agree with you your whole career. It looks like pandering and it looks like, I don’t know what. Hypocrisy of the worst kind. But go ahead. Explain it.
KUCINICH: OK. Thanks, Chris. I think criminalization of abortion would set this country back.
MATTHEWS: Who is proposing criminalization of abortion?
KUCINICH: Actually, Congress has been increasingly moving in the direction.
MATTHEWS: Who supports criminal punishments for abortion.
KUCINICH: Congress has been increasingly moving in the direction towards criminalization.
MATTHEWS: Name a U.S. congressperson.
KUCINICH: It’s a fact.
MATTHEWS: Name a Congressperson who supports putting people in jail for having an abortion. Name one.
KUCINICH: Trent Lott, at the beginning of this Congress, stated that it was the number one agenda for his, the legislative agenda to move forward to make abortion illegal.
MATTHEWS: No, you said to put them in jail, to criminalize abortion. Name a member of Congress who wants to-name any member of Congress in either party who says put a person in jail for having an abortion. Name one.
KUCINICH: I campaigned for Congress in 1996 against an opponent who was backing a constitutional amendment to make abortion illegal. And what I’m saying that it’s important in this country-
MATTHEWS: You didn’t say that. You said criminalize it. You said put a person in jail for having an abortion. Do you believe any member of Congress wants to do that?
KUCINICH: Well, I think there are members of Congress who want to do that. That’s absolutely right.
MATTHEWS: Name one.
KUCINICH: This isn’t about naming one.
MATTHEWS: Name one. Name one.
KUCINICH: I think Chris Smith would support it. I do...
MATTHEWS: He would. Well, that’s a nice subjective move, but you don’t have his testimony supporting it. We’ll check with him on that. I think it’s a rotten thing to say.
Let’s go on...
KUCINICH: What’s a rotten thing to say?
MATTHEWS: To say that somebody in Congress wants to put a woman in jail for having an abortion when you don’t even know their name.
KUCINICH: Well, you asked me to...
MATTHEWS: Name one.
KUCINICH: You asked me to who would be responsible and take that kind of a position. And I think Chris has had a strong position all of his life on it, and I think he’s probably be..
MATTHEWS: You’re desperate. Let’s move on here.
"Hardball with Chris Matthews" for July 16
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. Last night in our “Political Buzz” segment, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who is running for president, accused some in the United States Congress of attempting to criminalize abortions, in other words, put women in prison who’ve had abortions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Name any member of Congress of either party who says put a person in jail for having an abortion.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I campaigned for Congress in 1996 against an opponent who was backing a constitutional amendment to make abortion illegal. And what I’m saying, that it’s important in this country to oppose...
MATTHEWS: No, you didn’t say that.
KUCINICH: ... equal rights...
MATTHEWS: You said put a person in jail for having an abortion. Do you believe any member of Congress wants to do that?
KUCINICH: I think there are members of Congress who want to do that.
That’s absolutely...
MATTHEWS: Name one.
KUCINICH: This isn’t about naming one.
MATTHEWS: Name one. Name one.
KUCINICH: I think Chris Smith would support it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEWS: Congressman Chris Smith represents the 4th District of New Jersey. He joins us now. Congressman Smith, do you believe in putting women in prison for having abortions?
REP. CHRIS SMITH R, NEW JERSEY: Absolutely not. That was a very irresponsible and a presumptuous statement on the part of Mr. Kucinich. He’s dead wrong. Legislation including the partial-birth abortion which is making its way through Congress and all of the previous bills that have gone forward, some of which were vetoed by Bill Clinton, have an explicit piece of language in there that says no woman will be prosecuted under this act.
That is the intent of what we tried to do with all of our legislation and even pre-Roe v. Wade.
MATTHEWS: What is your thinking behind that?
SMITH: Without a doubt, we believe and I believe in pro-life woman believes that these women are co-victims with the babies. The baby has an act of violence on him or her. Physical dismemberment or poisoning by harsh chemicals.
MATTHEWS: Sure.
SMITH: But the mother carries incredible psychological consequences.
And as a matter of fact, I’m part of and recently hosted on Capitol Hill a Silent No More campaign. This is a group of women who have had abortions who are trying to tell others that there’s an enormous pain that they carry. They’re co-victims.
And like I said, the proof is in the legislation. It clearly states something as horrific as partial-birth abortion, where the baby is partially delivered and then his or her brains are sucked out, there’s a protection that the woman will not be...
MATTHEWS: Let’s not let you run the show because you were seized upon by the man running for president. I’m glad you came on.
By the way, just for the human interest part of this, Congressman Kucinich, after he was on the program last night, he apparently knew what he had said. And he realized its import to you. And what happened then?
SMITH: Well, he just informed me that he had said that.
MATTHEWS: He saw you on the floor of the House.
SMITH: He came up to me on the floor. And I said, “Well, first of all, it is presumptuous and it is absolutely wrong what you said.”
MATTHEWS: Did he admit it had been wrong?
SMITH: Yes, I think he think that’s this is where we’re going in the pro-life movement. And it is part of a red herring argument that the pro-abortion forces have been trying to sell for the last 20 years.
MATTHEWS: Did he apologize for what he said?
SMITH: Semi. He seemed very uncomfortable with the fact that he named my name. And you know, I believe in human rights. I believe in helping women.
And we’re all about reconciliation. That’s what the women need. They need help. And hopefully, you know, crisis pregnancy centers, 4,000-strong throughout the country on a daily basis are helping women. Many of the women who man those centers have previously had abortions.
MATTHEWS: Is there any other member of Congress, man or woman, Democrat or Republican, who advocates jailing women for abortion?
SMITH: I know of absolutely no one.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about-just a point here. We only have 30 seconds.
Why is it important to put the doctor in prison or finding him heavily or her heavily when they’re operating as an agent of a woman who seeks an abortion? And in most cases, when you ask somebody to do it, you’re the principal. Why in this case would a woman not be-should not be subject to penalization?
SMITH: Again, very often, women are under enormous pressure to have an abortion. They may be frightened. They’re very vulnerable.
The physician, if you want to call him that, the abortionist, should know better. He’s the one who has to go in there and dismember or chemically poison an unborn child. And in the past, prior to Roe, that’s who was the subject of sanctions.
You know, we have a sanction right now. If you kill a bald eagle, you get a year in prison. Kill a second bald eagle, you get five years. Partial birth abortion, we’re saying two years.
MATTHEWS: That’s the bottom line, that women shouldn’t go to jail for having abortions?
SMITH: Exactly right.
MATTHEWS: Thank you very much. Congressman Chris Smith from New Jersey
Kucinich, a vegan congressman from Ohio, boasted that he would like to -- quote -- "appoint any lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered person to the Supreme Court, just as long as they would be willing to uphold Roe vs. Wade." So there you have it: cross-dressing and abortion, two great Democratic values that go great together.
I can't imagine why anyone pays the slightest attention to this gnarled little troll anymore.
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