Pilot Detained After Veering Near Bush Motorcade (details)

Reuters ^ | July 24, 2003 | Reuters

[FairOpinion]

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - A man piloting a small plane that veered too close to President Bush's motorcade on Thursday was detained by federal agents after F-16 fighters and a police helicopter forced him to land, officials said. The pilot, who was patrolling oil pipelines in a single-engine Cessna at altitudes too low to be sighted by radar, entered a 30-mile no-fly zone and flew along Bush's motorcade route as the president was traveling from a speaking event in Philadelphia, officials said.

The pilot was identified only as an employee of Underwood Aerial Patrol of Ohio.

"He was unaware that there was a temporary flight restriction in effect. There was no threat. There was no malice," said James Borasi, special agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service's Philadelphia field office.

The incident, which occurred shortly after noon EDT, triggered a scramble of F-16 fighters, which forced the pilot down at Camden County Airport in Berlin, New Jersey, with help from a police helicopter, airport officials said.

About 30 police officers, with their guns drawn, waited as the Cessna taxied to a stop and then ordered the pilot to lie down on the tarmac.

"They handcuffed him and whisked him out of here," said Karl Kleinberg, the airport's owner.

Four hours after the incident, the pilot was still being detained as a suburban New Jersey police station.

[FairOpinion]

"But the rules changed on 911.

You cannot be a "special class" of citizen.

You are in the unrestricted wondering aircraft classification of the crop duster, the jerk kid in Tampa.

You are a flying missle.

If you do not guide yourself someone else will.

Or they will shoot you down.

You do not have the juice or the argument to stop it.

Case closed."

====

Excellent, logical, true argument.

I hope those who really need to, will read it. You should also save it and post it again, if this discussion comes up again, as I am sure it will.

[autoresponder]

Even people on Conservative sites like to be in treated in some special way at times, not actually thinking thru the total impact of their agenda.

This is not a blanket imposition on liberties, it is common sense to protect our Commander in Chief in time of an unending war upon us by a non national sprawling cult of insane terrorists.

[Squantos]

LMAO !!.........Glad it wasn't a sucide bomber or he'd have had 30 of our finest for fodder........< / sarcasm >

Stay safe Fred !!

[Travis McGee]

The 30 cops on the tarmac: we're great at closing barn doors after the fact.

[Squantos]

What do you expect from a goobermint that is reactive versus proactive with regards to internal security......FiBi's that fund terrorism informants, get's distracted by a donut and a tit, and America pays the bill again to get whacked .

Of course this wasn't the case here , I'm just commenting on the barn door statement......:o)

Stay Safe !!

[Travis McGee]

I get into that in my book, where the president says to his CSO that the FBI is just too slow, institutionally, to react or preempt in time. This is why he gives the green light to the STU team: they operate in real time.

BTW, I remember seeing in Int' Defense Review (awesome industry mag) years ago several companies that sold mounts and systems for putting machine guns and rocket launchers onto light planes. For "ranch security" etc, presumably in Africa or South America where "trespassers" are often terrorists, guerrillas etc. These companies put on discrete hard points, and all the avionics needed to mount smll chain guns, 2.75" rocket pods etc on your Cessna.

So it's not out of the realm of reality that a light plane could come in with a "Predador" type rocket attack on a limo.

Which is why, of course, there are always several identical limos in the motorcade.

[Dead Dog]

Think of it this way, you are considering restricting Americans freedom to fly small airplanes in order to allow absolute freedom of travel within our boarders for foreign born Arab men of military age .

[Dead Dog]

I think the valid point to argue here is whether or not the President should have his own TFR, especially in transit. Not only is it a huge inconvenience for him and citizens, but it also announces to the world his general travel route, time and destination.

It's like stamping a big red SECRET on the only sensitive information on your desk..it only makes finding it easier.

[Dead Dog]

It is all well and good for all to wail about loss of freedoms and decry restrictions on small private aircraft, but that is self-serving hogwash.

Move to Europe and let those brave enough to live free remain free. We are a special class of citizen, we're US citizens. Notice all or your hazardous light aircraft incidents were harmless. btw, If your going to ban airplanes, guns are next.

[Squantos]

Agree on that rag being awesome source of gear. Our unit used to subscribe for our over the counter collection of intel. One of my favorite Aircraft is the Cessna 337 skymaster. Albeit a GI version had a few hardpoints a GAU2B mounted in the snoot of that little "02" would be cool for "ridin fence"...........:o)

Stay Safe Travis !!!

[Travis McGee]

Great point!!!

[Travis McGee]

IDR = over the counter collection of intel: BIG TIME!

I'd like to have a ranch big enough to need my own air force to patrol it!

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Very possible and has been looked into already. The FBI locally were questioning owners of AgCats in our area right after Sept 11th attacks. They knew something was brewing with the use of chemicals being dropped from aircraft.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

"30-mile no-fly zone "

FYI

[autoresponder]

#1 - This not about freedom, it is about legal responsiblity; one of FR's posters on this thread stated that that inpector was required by current laws and regulation to:

A - File a flight plan
B - Monitor his radio
C - Be aware of alerts

#2 - Auto licenses are a privilege, not a Constitutional right

#3 - Aircraft licenses are a privilege, not a Constitutional right

#4 - Gun ownership is a Constitutional right, guaranteed by the 2nd Ammendment, responsibility of their use is required by law.

#5 - Private aircraft ownership is not a Constitutional right, or guaranteed by and law, and responsibility of their use is required by law.

#6 - An individual firearm is unlikely to kill the President or another 3000 Americans.

#7 - A private plane was crashed into the Clinton White House; that tree on the back of your dollar bills is no longer there any more.

#8 - The fourth (4th) skyjacked 911 jetliner (in one day) that passengers attempted to retake and that crashed into a Pennsylvania field was targeted either for the White House to hit Vice President Dick Cheney and First Lady Laura Bush or for the Capitol building to destroy the members of the US Congress.

#9 - Since three (3) out of three (3) jetliners that hit their targets killed many Americans, as was their intent and purpose, it is likely that that fourth (4th) jetliner would have killed many in Washington DC.

#10 - Europe has nothing to do with this issue; this pipeline inspector was clearly in violation of federal law, knowing or unknowingly.

According to one previous FR poster on this thread that obviously knows more about FAA rules and regulations the you or me, there are existing regulations on the books that he was violating.

If he was not aware of those regulations he should have his ticket revoked. If he was he should not only have it revoked, but receive a large fine.

This is not the first incidence of small aircraft abuse as I pointed out in my post.

You seem to want to "cherry pick" and "pick and choose" the laws you wish to ignore and wish to obey, much as Democrats do.

You also resort to obfuscation by attempting to mix in Constitutional law and rights, even so far as to imply that there is a constitutional Ammendment that gives "Freedom of the Sky".

We all know that is not true.

It is also another old lib trick to "change the subject", as you say "Move to Europe".

Bring up "guns" (firearms in the Army) is another false lead, there is a Constitutional right to own and bear arms, as everyone knows, but many dispute applies to individuals; I do not, and I have used them against criminals more than once. They did not prevail.

#1 - I note you included the Tampa Islamic teen that crashed into a Bank as "harmless". It was only a lucky accident that nobody was in that area of that building at thay exact moment.

#2 - The two Florida jerks that buzzed the New Jersey beaches to terrorize the bathers was not "harmless". They attempted to evade pursuit by law inforcement, proving their unlawful intent, and were disciplined in some way by the FAA in Florida. Look it up.

#3 - The pilots that intruded on DC airspace should be treated accordingly:

A - Accidental intrusion: Warning, Notation of Reprimand on License and FFA records

B - Willful intrusion: Lifetime Revocation of license, heavy fine, and prison time

MY FINAL PARTING GIFT:

Illegally "low level" buzz me or my horses and cattle and you will instantly find more then you want to know about firearms and their lawful, Constututional useage.

You will be grounded.

Permanently.

Legally.

[autoresponder]

We are all aware that a number of small aircraft have intruded on the restricted airspace above President Bush's Crawford Texas ranch, and at times when everyone knew that George w. Bush was there.

As Travis McGee stated in his post, which concurs with mine, a Predator type missile could be fitted to a small private plane.

Another FR post:

Not since 2 years back, Pipeline pilots are required to file a flight plan, get a squawk code and remain in positive control. Sounds like this guy never called FSS , did not bother to comply with the rules and will be skinned for it.Good, one less hazard to air navigation.

52 posted on 07/24/2003 11:19 PM EDT by gatorbait

(Yesterday,today and tomorrow..........The United States Army)

This seems pretty clear to me.

The pipeline inspector was at fault and there is no excuse for his ignorance or avoidance of the regulations and I question why he thought a police chopper was "chasing him" for no reason.

You do not attempt to run from a LEO car or helicopter.

Making flippant statements does not help his case a bit.

[Dead Dog]

I understand what you are saying, however:

#1
a) NOWHERE, in the US is a VFR flight plan required
b) Depending on Airspace Classification, he may or may
not have been required to have two way radio contact
with ATC.
c) Is correct answer, NOTAMs actually.

#2&#3 Rights Not Enumerated, see 9th and 10th Amendments

Auto License are a "privilege" because you operate on publicly funded roads, at least that is what we are told, I'm not sure how it stand constitutional muster. You don't need a license to operate a private Boat.

The right to fly is a constitutional right, the constitution doesn't give the Feds power to regulate travel by air, so it is a right. If you bust a FAR, you are not tried in a Federal Court. The first defense against the FAA is to get a lawyer and force the case in a civil court. The FAA is constitutionally toothless...unless you fly for a living.

#4 Careful, this was the fear of enumerating rights in the Bill of Rights. There was concern people would assume the constitution grants rights.

#5 See #2-#3, actually aircraft ownership like all other private property is a constitutional right. Do you not have a right to own a boat capable of smuggling NBCs, a lawn mower, a Rider Van full of diesel and fertilizer?

#6 Individual Firearms have assassinated more leaders than airplanes ever have. In fact I think Adm. Yonomoto was the first and last.

#7 The private plane did little or no damage, as have all private planes that have hit commercial buildings. The Pirelli building in Milan is also a good example.

#8 300Kip airliners with 140kips of fuel are not Cessnas, and in fact are rarely operated outside of IFR (ie, positive contact with ATC). Apples and Oranges. No reason why private individuals can't own one, but they are hard to sneak around in.

#9 Agree, but were talking about Arab hijackers, not US citizens flying the family beechcraft to the BVI.

#10 Europe is a nice "secure" location for people who want to own only what they need and only have those rights granted to them by man, not God. Europe is relevant, since what you suggesting is the regulation of our free society down to the lowest common denominator. Ban flying, and you won't find much sympathy from pilots when your ranch becomes a "World Heritage Site".

BTW, if you down an aircraft flying over your property, you will probably be up for murder. The pilot is not violating FARs until he is within 500ft of you and your poney. Good luck getting a shot off.

[SLB]

A 30 to 1 ratio? I am surprised the SWAT team was not called out. When Tom Ridge authorizes Stinger Air to Air missiles for the police helicopters this guy, or the hundreds of other like him, will really be in trouble. The troubling thing I see is the new era of FReepers will back Tommy to the hilt.