The Gentile Holocaust

Foundation for Catholic Reform ^ | 1998 | Thomas Craughwell

[Valin]

I recall reading (It was quite a while ago so no source comes to mind) That before the end of the 19th century Germany was one of the best places to live if you were a Jew. Very little in the way of progroms etc.. At least in comparison to places like Russia, Poland, France. I be interested to know if you've read or heard anything about this.

[xm177e2]

And I think one difference between the "gentile" holocaust and the Jewish one is that the effort was not to *exterminate* all gentiles, but more to purify them.

Of course, that meant exterminating different subsets of the Gentiles. The main difference between the Jews and the non-Jewish victim groups is that the Nazis started with the Jews and were going to get down to business on everyone else sooner or later. If Hitler had been in power for 20, 30 years, certain non-Jewish groups would have been exterminated (or at least heavily thinned) as well.

[xm177e2]

But why do Jews ignore the horrific numbers killed by the Nazis?

I can't remember if they made a point of noting non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust back in Jewish day school (it's been a long time), but I'm pretty sure they taught us that stuff. Holocaust education is an important part of Jewish culture, they try to do a thorough job of it.

[Coleus]

Someone who gets the Wanderer newspaper told me there was an article where they pointed out that more Christians died in the Holocaust than non Christians. Whether the accounting is true or not; I do not know.

[Marie Antoinette]

Self-bump from a 3rd generation American Pole. My family came over around the turn of the century. Last century, of course.

[DPB101]

These letters from victims of the Holodomor were only translated and made public this month. The Bolsheviks had a twist on their evil unlike that of anyone else.

[RobbyS]

Don't you think that non-Jewish victims ought to be included in a Holocaust museum? The only gentiles that get mention in the litature are the one who protected Jews. I know that many of those who perished at the hands of the Nazis hated Jews, but wouldn't that point up the radically violent character of National socialism? Mein Kampf clearly shows that Hitler hated Christianity because Jesus taught a Jewish (ie unmanly)erguc Christians who supported him for "pragmatic" reasons were utter fools, because there was no future for them in Hitler's Reich.

[RobbyS]

The irony was the German Jews loved Germany, were great patriots. For the Germans to turn on them was as shocking as
America turning on them today. And it seems they have cause for worry. Anti-semiticism in the United States is strongest in the party they cling to religiously.

[Natural Law]

Mao killed nearly 60 million in the Cultural Revolution, Tojo nearly 40 million in the occupied Asian countries, Stalin 20 million in his purges and pogroms and Hitler 8 million.

[.45MAN]

ping

[Ancesthntr]

I recall reading (It was quite a while ago so no source comes to mind) That before the end of the 19th century Germany was one of the best places to live if you were a Jew. Very little in the way of progroms etc.. At least in comparison to places like Russia, Poland, France. I be interested to know if you've read or heard anything about this.

Germany was surely more civilized on the surface than these other countries in the late 1800's. It was so friendly that Jews converted and/or intermarried in great numbers. However, Germany under Hitler "fixed" that by slaughtering anyone it could catch who had any Jewish grandparents,proving that Germany never really accepted the presence of the Jews, even if they converted.

And before anyone objects, without the massive support of the German populace, the Nazis would've been lucky to have been a rather comical historical footnote.

[weegee]

I've also heard it explained that the Nazis/German government was killing the sick (the original victims) because of the drain on resources. Citizens were angry that they were living in poverty while the sick were living in comfort in hospitals (this may have included the mentally ill).

This is what happens when healthcare is nationalized and people are not responsible for their own well being. Don't think it couldn't happen today? Clinton's Surgeon General claimed that money shouldn't be spent keeping old people alive, the returns were going to be short, they would only live a few more years. She said that she wanted the money to be spent on kids since they would be the ones paying for her social security.

I will also add that it should be noted that 4-5 million non-Jews were killed but that the Jews were targeted in TOTAL.

Originally there was a consideration that they Jews be allowed to leave the country. Reportedly, Arafat's uncle persuaded Hitler to persue a final solution to the Jewish question. If the Jews were allowed to gather in another nation, they would still be continuing their "evil" control on the world. Exterminating them in total would see that they could do "no harm".

Exterminating them also reduced all of the overhead in the camps (keeping the young and ill alive even though they were of little use for slave labor).

It was brutal efficiency. The millions of others that were killed do provide a forgetten answer when some people ask "why didn't some people intervene and DO something?". even with the risk of imprisonment and death, some people DID do something to help the Jews and sabotage the Nazi machine.

[Sam Cree]

"Of course, that meant exterminating different subsets of the Gentiles"

I believe you are correct.

"If Hitler had been in power for 20, 30 years, certain non-Jewish groups would have been exterminated (or at least heavily thinned) as well."

Thank God Hitler went after the USSR, and bit off more than he could chew.

[Valin]

I recall reading (It was quite a while ago so no source comes to mind) That before the end of the 19th century Germany was one of the best places to live if you were a Jew.

I want to say it was Paul Johnson in "Modern Times", but don't quote me on it.
In the book he talks about the raise of German nationalism as leading to the rise of anti-semitism in germany.

[Copernicus]

Posted to *bang_list

[cyborg]

Not having my original statement, I believe I was referring to when people say 'never again' as in never another holocaust WHEN in fact there have been holocausts since and no one really cares. That's what I meant. I DO NOT mean that the Jewish holocaust was crap or talking about it is crap, if that's what you may be thinking.

[cyborg]

Where in my bio did I confuse you? :-) Feel free to FReepmail me.

[SuziQ]

Has the Rape of Nanking been depicted on film? Probably the worst example of what an army can do if it is unleased on a city.

Probably has to do with the numbers of Jews in the US whose families were directly affected by the Holocaust. I don't know if there are that many Chinese families who had relatives killed in Nanking. In the case of the Jews here in the US, they have the memory of their loved ones being directly sought out and murdered just for the fact of their having been Jewish. Not all Catholics, Methodist, Calvinists, etc. were targeted in the countries overrun by Germany, just those who were guilty of opposing the Nazis, or sheltering Jews.

[SuziQ]

Someone who gets the Wanderer newspaper told me there was an article where they pointed out that more Christians died in the Holocaust than non Christians. Whether the accounting is true or not; I do not know.

That's possible, but that's just a function of the total numbers of folks who were not Jewish. I don't know what percentage of the population of Europe was Jewish, but I believe they were the ones who suffered the most deaths as a population group, simply because they were the targeted for their ethnicity.