Judge Bork, baptized at 76

U.S. News & World Report ^ | 7/22/03 | Paul Bedard With David LaGesse

[nickcarraway]

It may be a little late to start for most, but Robert Bork, the former Supreme Court nominee who has written books decrying the decline of Western culture, has just been baptized. Rev. C. John McCloskey, who represents the conservative and activist Opus Dei arm of the Roman Catholic Church and oversaw the baptism, said, "I can confirm that he was received in the Catholic Church." Bork, a scholar with the conservative American Enterprise Institute, was raised a Protestant and had called himself a "generic Protestant." He was known more for his conservative legal views, which some Democrats used to shoot down his court nomination during the Reagan administration.

In a brief interview, he said that years of "conversations and reading" led him to baptism at McCloskey's small Catholic Information Center chapel on K Street near the White House. "There's more to talk about than you can put in a brief story." He called himself a regular Catholic who attends Sunday mass, not an Opus Dei member.

He said talks with and recommendations from the priest, as well as attending church with his wife, Mary Ellen Bork, a former nun, helped pave the way to the ceremony.

Bork's sponsors were Kate O'Beirne, a conservative media star, and John O'Sullivan, head of UPI.

Lots of other prominent Catholics were there, such as columnist and speechwriter Peggy Noonan, herself a convert.

McCloskey has made several other high-level conversions of conservatives, bringing into the Catholic Church conservative columnist Robert Novak and Republican Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas.

The best part of getting baptized at 76, said Bork: "If you get baptized at my age, all of your sins are forgiven. And that's very helpful."

According to Archdiocese of Washington Communications Director Susan Gibbs, Msgr. William Awalt, the longtime pastor of the Borks, baptized the judge, confirmed him and gave him First Communion. Father McCloskey celebrated the Mass, along with Msgr. Peter Vaghi, pastor of St. Patrick's.

[old-ager]

It is faith in Jesus and faith alone that saves you.

Yes, by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone. We agree on this. But God always ordained means by which He provides His grace. This means is baptism. I agree that every believer would want to be baptized. I agree that you can be a believer before you are baptized. But you have to convince yourself that a baby is not born in sin to say that baptism does not save him.

[PFKEY]

Luke.6
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Why the argument?

In the end does it really matter what side of salvation baptism falls on?

If we fail to do as Jesus commanded then we truly do not consider him Lord and we do not share in the Kingdom.

Agree or disagree?

[haole]

Unfortunately, at my parish, and at many in this area, the liberal Priests do a "butt-dipping", or allow the parents to hold the baby, which is against Church teaching. The basic formula has always been, since John the Baptist poured water on the head of Jesus, was for the Priest to pour water onthe head of the baby. Liturgical abuse runs rampant and needs to be cleaned up.

[PFKEY]

Well said, brother/sister.

[Mr. Lucky]

You're preaching to the choir.

[mdmathis6]

There was a covenant between God and Abraham, in Genesis 15. God makes a promise to Abraham regarding the descedants Abraham was to produce from his own body. God tells Abraham to make a sacrifice, but Abraham does not set fire to the covenant. (Abraham is skeptical of the promise, but does what the Lord command). At sundown God visits Abraham and tell him his heirs will be in captivity for 400 years then he will bring them back ...the covenant was for the land that will belong to his descendants. To signify the covenant, God sets fire to the sacrifice himself(verse17).

That is not the same covenant that was made with Israel during their wanderings out of Egypt. The one made with Israel is generally called ..."the old covenant", Paul in Hebrews figuratively describes Christians as having not arrived at Mount Sinai(the old covenant of works and animal sacrifice for the COVERING of sin), but rather at arriving at Mount Zion(the new covenant of grace and Christ's sacrifice for the CLEANSING of sin).

I don't where you get the idea that I said baptism wasn't important. BELIEVE AND BE BAPTIZED INDEED!...The arguement put forth from Chewbacca was that some people neglect the beleif part and emphasize the ritual part. His question of whether or not Bork had "Asked Jesus into his heart" was an appropo one. I think such a one as Bork, deep thinking as he is would have approached the issue with quite seriousness; but you and I both know that many have been baptized but the truth of God has not penetrated their hearts where the real baptism of spirit and circumcision of heart must occur. You know this from the fruits their lives have been producing. That is what our discussion has been about...I thought?

[mdmathis6]

There was a covenant between God and Abraham, in Genesis 15. God makes a promise to Abraham regarding the descedants Abraham was to produce from his own body. God tells Abraham to make a sacrifice, but Abraham does not set fire to the covenant. (Abraham is skeptical of the promise, but does what the Lord command). At sundown God visits Abraham and tell him his heirs will be in captivity for 400 years then he will bring them back ...the covenant was for the land that will belong to his descendants. To signify the covenant, God sets fire to the sacrifice himself(verse17).

That is not the same covenant that was made with Israel during their wanderings out of Egypt. The one made with Israel is generally called ..."the old covenant", Paul in Hebrews figuratively describes Christians as having not arrived at Mount Sinai(the old covenant of works and animal sacrifice for the COVERING of sin), but rather at arriving at Mount Zion(the new covenant of grace and Christ's sacrifice for the CLEANSING of sin).

I don't where you get the idea that I said baptism wasn't important. BELIEVE AND BE BAPTIZED INDEED!...The arguement put forth from Chewbacca was that some people neglect the beleif part and emphasize the ritual part. His question of whether or not Bork had "Asked Jesus into his heart" was an appropo one. I think such a one as Bork, deep thinking as he is would have approached the issue with quite seriousness; but you and I both know that many have been baptized but the truth of God has not penetrated their hearts where the real baptism of spirit and circumcision of heart must occur. You know this from the fruits their lives have been producing. That is what our discussion has been about...I thought?

[mdmathis6]

"What else claims to be the insired word of God? (I trust we both believe that the Bible is what it claims)

If this standard is insufficient then what standard do we have that is greater?"


Certainly not Catholic tradition and dogma as it is currently realized in the churches of Europe and America, as evidenced by the growing liberal attacks on it from THE INSIDE OF IT. The pedophile scandals and the reluctance of the Vatican to take a firm tact against the erring priests are a clearer sign of this decay.

You can blame Protestants for schisms but the Protestants didn't do to the Catholic Churches of America and Europe what it is doing to itself today. If it would clean itself up, some of us Protestsnts, who really do see the value in the rich heritage of the Catholic church might return....:(

[LurkingSince'98]

BibChr,

You did NOT answer Champion's question!

Enquiring minds want to know - or am I going on your "ignore" list too.

Answer the question.

Lurking'

[haole]

Try this:

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Matthew 19:17 but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

so far none of you (5%) "Bible Christians" like U and BibChr have answered the Abraham question: "When was Abraham justified?" (Clue to you most clueless: either before Isaac was born, or after Isaac was born). You will need to understand this before you can even remotely criticize any Catholic.

Ps In John we read: "John 14:12 Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do..".

Paul writomg to the Philippians, who according to your definition ( belief in Jesus are already saved ): "Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.".

Are you going to argue that Paul did not believe in Jesus? For he wrote " persevere until the very end, i have run the good race....Which of you has the intelectual honesty to examine your heart and mind and say: " here I am justifying my thoughts on one section of scripture, and not of the whole. Should i not come to a fuller and deeper understanding of the Bible that is page by page consistent, and accepts the whole of the revealed word of God?.

[graycamel]

Thanx!

[graycamel]

Thanx.

[mdmathis6]

What are you thanking me for?

[BibChr]

...your frothy I hate the Catholic Church Manual

Is that what you people are calling the Bible now? Wow. Gotta love the candor, though.

Dan

[BibChr]

HA! That's only because you Bib, can not stand up to Campion's questions

Haven't been paying attention, but still want to shoot off your mouth? How common.

No. It's because I try to obey God's Word (Proverbs 14:7; Matthew 7:6). It's in the Bible. Really great book, none like it, ought to read it sometime. It would change your life.

Dan

[BibChr]

RCism 101: when proven to be wrong by Scripture, change the subject.

You're following orders well, but the class isn't work it. Drop out, for your soul's sake.

Dan

[BibChr]

Dang, that's a really good question. Would you do me a favor, nag me about this one more time? Back from over a week away, no time, deluged with posts to answer, want to give yours time. I'd really appreciate it.

Dan

[It's me]

Haven't been paying attention, but still want to shoot off your mouth? How common.

Ha! Who hasn't been paying attention? Notice when I posted the reply? It took you this long to think of a reply?

Still want to shoot off your mouth. How common.

I try to obey God. You should read the Bible. Really great book, none like it, ought to read it sometime. It would change your life.

I'll pray for you at Mass this morning.

[Thorondir]

Don't bother with this hate-filled heretic, my friend. He is, as the great Fulton Sheen used to say, "mired in an invincible ignorance." Shake his dust from your feet and move on.

Dominus tecum

[PFKEY]

Dang, that's a really good question. Would you do me a favor, nag me about this one more time?

Should there have been a sarcasm tag or would you really like me to nag you again?