Egypt demands return of Rosetta Stone!

The Sunday Telegraph - UK ^ | July 20, 2003 | Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner

[Sam Cree]

The article did day that Egypt wants the obelisk back. Maybe they are taking the line that the Ottomans stole the thing from Egypt and hadn't any right to give it away in the first place.

Since it is a famous Paris landmark, it would be weird if they gave it up. But who knows.

[pau1f0rd]

the Parthenon marbles belong to Greece
In isolation, it's a reasonable argument. But Britain has a large amount of similar claims against it at as a result of our long period of colonialism. Though you may not want the debate exapanded to other colonial thefts, the UK government would be remiss if it didn't consider all the possible implications.

Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin, but I think the Trustees of the museum would not be doing their job if they allowed this precedent.

Maybe we should consider a compromise - the Parthenon could be shipped over to London. I'm sure we could find space for it in Hyde Park. ;-)

[Porterville]

We should just take all of Egypt from them.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

The article did day that Egypt wants the obelisk back. Maybe they are taking the line that the Ottomans stole the thing from Egypt and hadn't any right to give it away in the first place.

Personally, that makes no sense to me. The Ottomans were in control of Egypt since the 16th century, so therefore they were the ruling authority. If they decided to give away a treasure to France, and a future Egyptian government is unhappy with the decision of their precessors, I think its too bad. I'll qualify this by saying I'm not up on the legal ramifications of the Egyptian claim, but it seems similar to a (hypothical situation) of France demanding the return of the Statue of Liberty.

[MrsEmmaPeel]

That 2001 decision seems way out in left field to me, tho I am not a lawyer. But clearly the Spanish monarchy, which owned those ships, no longer exists. That is, if the ships are from that era? Salvage law is way outside my field of knowledge.

That decision really surprised me too. Here's a link you might find enjoyable. Deliverance: The battle for $3.2 bn in sunken treasure

[MrsEmmaPeel]

But Britain has a large amount of similar claims against it at as a result of our long period of colonialism.

My inclination would be to fall on the side of the British - as they were the legal authority. Obviously, this has to be taken case by case. But let's say hypothetically, that a great Australian Aboriginal treasure was lifted by the British prior to Australia's Federation in 1901. I don't believe Australia would be justified in demanding the return of those artifacts.

The marbles were different because this was a case of outright theft. The British government was not in control of Greece, Lord Elgin was not acting on behalf of the Government, but on his own. It became a British Government problem when the British took it upon themselves to condemn Elgin, then bought the marbles from him at a reduced price. It has remained a British Government problem ever since when members of both parties have campaigned and pledged for the return of the marbles, then nothing happens.

Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin,
I profoundly disagree. Nothing beats seeing an item better than in its original context. Because the marbles were hacked up and now displayed in doors, we loose the drama of them in the context of the Parthenon, and its natural lighting. Who knows? Maybe there were cetrtain pieces that were oriented in such a way as to catch the morning light.

What the British could do is remove the marbles, return them to the Greeks, then in the space where the marbles (and Elgin's loot) is, convert that into a Virtual Reality museum. Visitors to the museum pay $5.00, for VR helmet and experience what it would have been like waking through the Parthenon in Ancient Greece. The Brits could claim that the original is in Greece, but they have the technology to bring the feeling of the original to life.

[pau1f0rd]

[Any visitor to the British Museum can see that the Marbles would look better at their place of origin]
I profoundly disagree

Bit of a mix up here. I agree with you they would look better on the Parthenon (their place of origin) than in the British Museum.

[SunkenCiv]

Another blast from the past. A similar thread (different newspaper however) was likewise added to the catalog, but not pinged.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[NautiNurse]

a system of duel ownership

:::chuckle::: unless one side decides to use bigger weapons.

[Towed_Jumper]

I can think of a scenario for the fate of the Rosetta Stone: The British Museum returns it to Egypt, then, at some future point the fundamentalists Muslims stage a coup and take over the government, declaring a new "Islamic Republic". One of their first acts is to "purify" the land of all the heathen artifacts so they ransack the Egypt Museum and smash the Rosetta Stone to bits. (Keep in mind what happened to the ancient Buddhist Shrine in Afghanistan after the Taliban took over - they blasted it to smithereens with explosives - didn't matter to them that it was thousands of years old!

...never send back the Stone (or the Elgin Marbles either).

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"and decides to crush them to powder."

Give the guy a couple of passes to EuroDisneyland.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

There may be a way to work out a deal. If they hand over Bin Laden.... we'll toss a coin to see who gets the stone.

[Zack Attack]

Tell them they can have Sharon Stone.

Nah. But they could have Rosetta Barr. Yeah, I know it's Roseanne, but it's close enough they might buy it.

[denydenydeny]

Perhaps the example of the Taliban destroying those monolithic towers of the ancient Bhudda is something to consider before anyone seriously contemplates abiding by the Egyptian demands.

Exactly.

"the Rosetta Stone...is the icon of our Egyptian identity," said Dr Hawass.

Until the future Islamist leaders of Egypt decide to blow it up.

[Larry Lucido]

Wow, I forgot all about that post. LOL!

[Zack Attack]

LOL. I didn't even notice the date when I posted.

[Larry Lucido]

Are we still here? I thought we'd both been banned a long time ago!

[finnigan2]

From a documentary that I saw about a year ago, the Egyptian Museum which houses all the priceless treasures of the Pharaohs is so badly underfunded and staffed with such badly trained technicians that many of the artifacts are deteriorating due to heat, city pollution and poor conservation practices.
I guess they'd really like to get their hands on a big stone - they'd just have to keep it out of the rain and it wouldn't require any further upkeep.

[Ready4Freddy]

Sounds more like a parrot to moi. ;>)

Why do I think that you might be of Irish descent, Mrs. Peel?

[zeugma]

The precedence for the acquisition of antiquities has been set, the Egyptians know how it has to be done if they want it back.

Exactly! I'd simply tell them: "Come and take it!" (Note the Goliad reference there.)