U.S. Furniture Makers to Seek Protection From China Imports

Wall Street Journal ^ | 7/15/03 | Dan Morse

[Protagoras]

This is my first post, it's not a personal attack and it isn't to you. You really need help.

To: MEG33

I love it when Republicans and Conservatives denigrate the freemarket. It's like fish in a barrel.

105 posted on 07/15/2003 10:37 AM CDT by Protagoras

[Cacique]

bttt

[Protagoras]

This is my second post, it's not a personal attack and it directly addresses your comment. You really need help.

To: harpseal

Now since you claim to be a Christian I will also explain that by advocating policies which beggar thy neigbor within the USA you are hardly being a good Christian.

ROTFLMAO, good one! You might want to check with your pastor as to whether the golden rule stops at borders.

Amazing stuff.

115 posted on 07/15/2003 10:42 AM CDT by Protagoras

[Texas_Dawg]

Ha, I already have. The strength of the Democratic party in Arkansas versus the strength of the GOP. That trade protectionist crap works on the "little man". Not on people that have gotten out of that populist backwards mentality. The state of politics in Texas and Arkansas are night and day. And the reasons are obvious, hoss. I'd be curious to know why you think Texas is such a solid red state now whereas Arkansas still has two Democratic Senators.

[Protagoras]

This is your post a few later, the beginning of the personal attacks which only escalated as they went.

To: Protagoras

Your comments do not reflect the History of the USA at all. Free Markets within the USA have always helped make America strong but we have only been trying this new trade policy since the mid 1990's. Thank you Bill Clinton for your comments on your policies.

132 posted on 07/15/2003 10:55 AM CDT by harpseal

NOW, I'm done with you. You are a liar and moral slob. Shove it where the sun don't shine you imbecile.

[MEG33]

Stalin knew what to do..Let them starve(estimated 20million in the Ukraine in the 30s)Mao's or communism's rule in China estimates of deaths up to 45 million depending on the source.Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake" when there was a plea for bread.Stalin denied the famine and lib reporters covered it up.I imagine the commies will let them starve or accuse them of crimes and they will"disappear".

[MEG33]

That was a dem minority tantrum because they lost the majority for the first time in 140 years(if memory serves me).If all else fails ,POUT!

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Ha, I already have.

No you haven't.

The strength of the Democratic party in Arkansas versus the strength of the GOP.

That is only proof that we have a large minority. Not at all proof that we are a not free trade state.

That trade protectionist crap works on the "little man". Not on people that have gotten out of that populist backwards mentality.

Whatever!

The state of politics in Texas and Arkansas are night and day. And the reasons are obvious, hoss.

Again, Hoss, your logic is flawed and presented with only anecdotal and personal opinion evidence. Once again, Hoss, present some real evidence where Arkansas is less of a free trade state that Texas.

I'd be curious to know why you think Texas is such a solid red state now whereas Arkansas still has two Democratic Senators.

I have not stated that I think that Texas is a "red" state as you claim. How was it that a handful of Texas dems were able to stymie the mighty and powerful Repubs?

[MEG33]

By law, two thirds of the House has to be in attendence in order to conduct business.There is no way to vote anything or even have a session without it.They left the state,therefore the requirement could not be met, and that's how they did it.(I answered assuming this was a serious question)

[Texas_Dawg]

The strength of the Democratic party in Arkansas versus the strength of the GOP. That is only proof that we have a large minority.

Now surely you're not going to blame the strength of the Democratic Party in Arkansas (which is far, far stronger than it is in Texas) on minorities. You might want to check the percentage of "minorities" in Texas versus Arkansas. Yet we are solidly GOP, and your state isn't. The Yellow Dog lives on in good old Arkansas.

[hedgetrimmer]

Are our manufacturers exporting into China? Or does China have restrictions, like Japan protecting against US ag products that keep our manufacturers from selling into China?

In 1998, China accounted for .72% of all U.S. Furniture Exports. Chinese furniture tariffs range from 30-50% and hinder the ability of U.S. products to compete in the market.

Do you call _this_ free trade?

REMARKS OF MICHAEL J. COPPS
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMERCE
FOR TRADE DEVELOPMENT


U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

As I said earlier, we need to do this together. And in accessing the China market, our Public-Private Partnership activities are extensive. In fact, they are driving the effort. The principal venue for our commercial discussions with China is the U.S.-China Joint Commission on Commerce and Trade, chaired on our side by Secretary of Commerce Mineta and on the Chinese side by Minister Shi of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation. The primary work of this Commission is accomplished through sector-specific working groups, in such sectors as information technology, medical equipment, automotive and so on. Our private sector is part-and-parcel of these groups, and usually when we go in to sit down with the Chinese, we go together, U.S. government and U.S. business.

Texas_Dawg, do you know what a public/private partnership is? It is a facistic relationship of government with business. You call people on this forum communists or marxists because they oppose the current trade policies of our government. They are the patriots because they are opposing the unholy alliance of the public/private partnerships that are removing Americans from their right to self determination.

The idea of public/private partnerships was first floated by the OECD in the mid-nineties and picked up by the third way socialists and promoted vigorously by the UN. It is facisim of the worst sort because it is a stealth weapon being used against the American people.

Public private partnerships and free trade, self cancelling phrases.

http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Speeches/copps1115.htm
http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/ocg/tradepolicy3/sld022.htm

[Texas_Dawg]

Do you call _this_ free trade?

Not at all. That's why I don't want to duplicate such a stupid system in the U.S.

[hedgetrimmer]

You cannot prove that it is a free market operating these days. If you go to the dept of commerece website, you will see for example, the chinese tariff on imported American furniture is 50%, but the tariff if any on chinese furniture coming into the US is zero.

Zero tariff on chinese side, zero tariff on US side= free trade.

%50 tariff on chinese side, zero tariff, income tax, excessive employement regulations, environmental regulations and penalties on the US side //=‚ free trade

[Protagoras]

You cannot prove that it is a free market operating these days.

I never asserted it much less tried to prove it.

[epow]

What is the significance of the TX vs AK argument, and how is it germane to the topic of this thread? I thought you guys settled these kinds of disputes on the football field.

So far I have read what seems like hundreds of your posts without finding one single fact that substantiates your claim for the superiority of free trade over any other system. Are you all mouth, or can you present verifiable proof for your contention? And by verifiable proof I don't mean the untested theories put forth by eggheaded economy profs who live in ivory towers well apart from the grubby dog-eat-dog world, and who have never in all their insulated lives made a dollar in a competive business environment. But if you can present me with proof I am open to persuasion.

As it stands now, I have to say the "all mouth" proposition seems to be the most likely.

[hedgetrimmer]

I'm sorry, but you didn't read correctly. This system IS the US. It is our assistant secretary of commerce that is promoting public/private partnerships. It is OUR government that is the "stupid system".

[hedgetrimmer]

So if you know that we do not have free markets operating in this country, why to you personally attack people who want to protect our ability to trade?

[Protagoras]

So if you know that we do not have free markets operating in this country, why to you personally attack people who want to protect our ability to trade?

I don't ever personally attack anyone except in return. Read all the posts and you will know that.

Secondly, what you contrue as protection I construe as buying into a failed philosophy and removing the rights of people to make their own arrangements. The whole debate is free trade vs protectionism. It's an old, old debate.

If you have something NEW to add, please do so.

[epow]

As I admitted earlier in the thread, I don't know enough abut economics to have a hard position on either side of the argument. Plain old common sense would appear to be on the side of protectionist policy, but I am open to persuasion from either side.

Common sense tells me that it should be advantageous to produce our own goods in our own facilities from raw materials from our own soil and by the labor of our own workers. Keeping it all in the family so to speak, which is a time-tested practice of many small businesses. Yet free trade advocates tell me it is preferable to purchase all our goods from abroad with money I assume we are supposed to earn by providing the financial services and scientific research needed by those outsiders to continue producing those goods. Maybe I'm just biased by having worked in an enterprise which produced tangible goods for most of my life, but that sounds like a fragile basis on which to base the health of our national economy.

Given my admitted lack of expertise in the field of economic policy I won't dismiss the free trade theory out of hand, but I want to see more than theory to validate that proposition. And in all this long thread I have not yet seen any factual argument from the free trade side to counter my natural inclination to let common sense be my guide.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Now surely you're not going to blame the strength of the Democratic Party in Arkansas (which is far, far stronger than it is in Texas) on minorities.

Yes in fact I am. Northwest Arkansas which is predominately white is strongly GOP. The remaining two thirds of Ark with large minority populations accounts for the demos strength.

You might want to check the percentage of "minorities" in Texas versus Arkansas. Yet we are solidly GOP, and your state isn't.

I'm glad to hear it if it is true.

The Yellow Dog lives on in good old Arkansas.

There again, maybe so. I am still however waiting on your proof that Arkansas is a non-free trade state.