Here is what the acolytes of solar power don't want you to know...

self | July 15, 2003 | Boot Hill

[farmfriend]

farmfriend... why do you attract these types? (grin)

Talent, pure talent.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Solar Program

Hmmm!

Sacramento Municipal Utilities District

I'll see what I can find!

[farmfriend]

swish swish of mutiple swords of Damocles

Phrase of the day award.

[null and void]

*blush* Thank you!

[newgeezer]

Paul K. Driessen of Fairfax, Virginia calculates that producing 50 megawatts of electricity ... with wind towers (100-200 feet high) would require some 4,000 acres. By comparison, less than half an acre would be required to produce 50 megawatts of electricity from oil, or 2 to 5 acres for natural gas.

So what? Is there a shortage of land in the great plains states? No. There's a glut, and 4000 acres -- 8 sq. miles -- is nothing. It's a few acres here and there, like the telephone pole takes up space in a yard. We can use the land we're currently paying people to not grow crops on, and nothing is lost. The land is not "used up" anymore than the ocean is used up by sailboats.

On the other hand, while wind power might require 4000 acres to produce 50 MW, it uses zero oil, zero natural gas, zero coal, zero uranium, and produces zero byproducts.

Next.

[biblewonk]

When I'm back in the work force (The 28th is my target start date on a consulting gig) I'd love to become a net producer, but the State of Grayout Davis forbids my making money at it, indeed, there is a scheme to TAX solar power...

So, how much power does your personal wind system generate?

I am a huge fan of large scale wind power which uses windmills from 600kw to 4.5MW and growing. They cost about 1 dollar per watt to build. IOW I don't own one, but wouldn't that be nifty!

[SierraWasp]

Come to think of it... I think I found that in the Sacto Business Journal myself and asked you to post it for discussion and it turned into a real corker of a thread. I would guess about 6 or 7 months ago, maybe.

[biblewonk]

I just read that natural gas prices are costing 5 cents per kwhr. That's just the cost of the fuel and it is the least stable of fuel prices. Wind power is being wholesaled at 5 cents per kwhr today and the price declines every month.

It is an error to think that 4000 acres are used up when windmills are placed on them. The land, usually farm land or plains, is still 90 percent as productive as before. For the farmer he is still growing corn and earning an extra 3-6000 dollars per year per turbine. Everyone wins.

[biblewonk]

ping. Didn't mean to leave you out.

[SierraWasp]

Just like I figured! Ol "hardcase" drops the Commonist Manifesto for a tagline and waxes poetic with the verbal diareaha about the desirability of cluttering the entire prarie with view screwing ugly whirly bird whackers, just to keep from using oil and gas!!!

It's amusing and amazing what lengths some people will go to, to justify their untennable positions. Then they wax all full of self-righteous certitude when nobody agrees with them, except some fellow deluded dreamer and fellow traveler! Wow!!!

[BOBTHENAILER]

So what? Is there a shortage of land in the great plains states? No. There's a glut, and 4000 acres -- 8 sq. miles -- is nothing. It's a few acres here and there, like the telephone pole takes up space in a yard. We can use the land we're currently paying people to not grow crops on, and nothing is lost. The land is not "used up" anymore than the ocean is used up by sailboats.

So I take it that ANWR, at approximately 1300 acres, which has the capacity to replace Saudi crude imports (1 million barrels per day) for the next 30 years, is YOUR PREFERENCE, particularly considering to get that amount of energy from your wind, which blows 24/7 right?, would take windmills covering the entire state you live in.

And when your whole state is covered in beautiful, aesthetic bird cuisinarts, you most assuredly won't mind at all NOT HAVING ANY electricity, when that pesky old wind refuses to blow.

Your wind prices are also dubious at best. Got a source for those?

[BOBTHENAILER]

just read that natural gas prices are costing 5 cents per kwhr. That's just the cost of the fuel and it is the least stable of fuel prices. Wind power is being wholesaled at 5 cents per kwhr today and the price declines every month.

Got a source for that bullhillary on wind prices. You're almost right on nat gas, those prices are between 3-5 cents per kwhr.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I am drawing a blank so far!

Hmm!

Calpowercrisis should have it, if it was after Nov of 2002!

Do you remember anything about the title ?

[biblewonk]

http://www.sustdev.org/energy/Industry%20News/06.01/26.01.shtml

[BOBTHENAILER]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/rea_issues/windart.html

Check out the above link on wind.

Be my guest if you want to pay more. Part of the article tells you how to sign for for "green" energy, of course there is an additional cost, but what the heck, the Sierra Club love you will receive is worth it.

[newgeezer]

ANWR, at approximately 1300 acres, which has the capacity to replace Saudi crude imports (1 million barrels per day) for the next 30 years, is YOUR PREFERENCE,

I'm all for developing ANWR. Contrary to what you might think, not everyone who likes windpower is a dyed-in-the-wool environmentalist whacko.

particularly considering to get that amount of energy from your wind, which blows 24/7 right?, would take windmills covering the entire state you live in.

At best, you're confused. At worst, you're pulling "data" from your a**. Do you often similarly confuse acceleration (MPH/hr) with speed (MPH)?

Be careful; you're starting to look like the other raving lunatic in this thread who doesn't give a hoot about the facts.

[BOBTHENAILER]

"There isn't a major institutional investor who wasn't burned by U.S. Windpower," said Jan Paulin, chief executive of Sea West, a private wind developer based in San Diego. Because wind development's cost reflects the time and money needed for making better equipment, scouting the windiest sties, and getting permits to build wind farms, the economics of the wind turbine business are highly sensitive to the interest rate banks charge developers, experts say.

From you own website. How can this be if it sells so cheaply? Ever driven from Palm Springs to San Diego? I've driven that route at least ten times and only twice were all those hideous windmills turning.

The bottom part of your website brags about Denmark producing 10% of its elec from wind. They will never get past that, because the grid can't stand the failure when the wind refuses to blow. I'll try and find the back-up for you on that. In the meantime, read both websites and see how they mention Europe as a leader in this. Then wait for my next post that gives average elec bills in London, Paris, Tokyo, etc., and be ready to explain the difference.

[biblewonk]

You asked for proof for the price of wind power as if I lied about it. I gave you the very first source with the price and it turned out that it meant nothing to you. Why do you think I would continue in what is turning into nothing but a pissing match. Good day.

[newgeezer]

Here's another one who thinks windpower means those antiquated toy turbines in California.

He might as well be looking at a Model 'T' while telling us cross-country travel by automobile is impractical.

[newgeezer]

FRetards will not allow the truth to get in the way of their most cherished opinions.