W & Rummy In Denial

New York Daily News | July 7, 2003 | Michael Kramer

[SLB]

Hmmmmmmm

I guess Gen (Ret) Shinseki is on the beach saying something like "told you so".

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[kjam22]

There is a reason why Saddam ran that country the way he ran it. A mercyless barbaric style of control.

[BOBTHENAILER]

Here's an interesting counterpoint to the above whining.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/938827/posts

[Steel Wolf]

It's not so much that W and Rummy are in denial as it is that they're surrounded by hapless amatuers who either don't understand why we went in as light as we did, or don't care because they want any ammunition at all to weaken the administration.

The truth of the matter is that there is no quagmire, no Tet offensive, no organized resistance, just a lot of mopping up still to do. That might not be as exciting or glamorous as tank battles and airstrikes, but it has to be done, and is completely normal.

[toddst]

There is a reason why Saddam ran that country the way he ran it. A mercyless barbaric style of control.

Yep, he wanted all the money and power for himself, the people be damned. The problems we're experiencing are coming from Saddam's people, who believe they can get control back if the US can be driven out. I dare say most Iraqi people don't want us to leave, don't want a return to the "bad old days."

Occupation is always difficult. Wiping out the monsters causing problems (a small number, but very brutal, like their old boss) will take time.

[kjam22]

I thought there was a bunch of anti-saddam guys protesting and flooding the streets who were also protesting the "american occupation".

I still don't buy into the idea that "the Iraqui people are a peaceful people who will embrace democracy".

[Texas_Dawg]

[Texas_Dawg]

Link to the picture above:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030707/168/4m25q.html

[Alberta's Child]

That, by the way, would be close to the number of soldiers Gen. Eric Shinseki prophetically predicted would be necessary to rule Iraq - a bit of truth-telling for which the then-Army chief of staff was rebuked by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

I've often thought of how I would do things differently if I were President of the United States. Rule #1 in my book would be this: If a civilian government official rebukes a military commander in a military matter and it turns out that the military guy was right after all, then the civilian government official would be fired immediately and disgraced in public.

[kjam22]

I agree...

I think another lesson maybe learned is that you don't disperse an army when you invade it's home country. You kill it.

[Alberta's Child]

With all due respect to President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, the military leadership in this country has known for years that civilian government is run by incompetent sh!ts. This attitude dates back to the Vietnam era, and explains why military leaders generally insist on doing it "their way" when it comes to waging war.

[VRWC_minion]

How would more troops have prevented the types of killings we are seeing. I don't see the logic.

[LS]

Same crowd who said the war would be a "quagmire" and "another Vietnam."

So far, U.S. "peacekeeping" casualties are about EXACTLY in line with post-war casualties in such "hot spots" as Austria after WW II---that is to say, 20 deaths in 21 days.

[cyncooper]

I guess Gen (Ret) Shinseki is on the beach saying something like "told you so".

How can he?

Kramer says Bremer "reportedly" requested more troops, then says this is "close" to what Shineski predicted.

First, what's "close"?

Second, Kramer is then forced to reluctantly concede that there are on the record denials of this "report".

I also had to chuckle at how he praised Franks' being replaced by Abizaid, and he goes on and on about how Abizaid can "set his bosses straight". Um, wouldn't it be "his bosses" that selected him in the first place for the position?! Perhaps he was put there because "his bosses" have more of a handle than Kramer could ever dream of how to handle Iraq.

And "quagmire" again. Please.

[cyncooper]

a top Pentagon official - who everyone knows speaks for Rumsfeld - has denied that Bremer ever asked for more boots on the ground.

How can the military guy be right about a non-existant circumstance?

There was no troop increase request, hence the citing of whatever Shineski's opinion was is moot.

[clintonh8r]

Shinseki, Shalikashvili, Clark....still carrying clinton's water, just like they did when they were the Perfumed Princes of the Pentagon.

[cyncooper]

Please pardon my fumble-fingers transposing any letters.

I am notorious for typos.

Shineski = Shinseki

[Alberta's Child]

The issue isn't a "request for more troops" -- it's the use of the troops that are still there. The Pentagon initially believed that most of the troops would have been home by June, and Shinseki was lambasted by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz back in February or March when he dared to suggest that the troops needed in post-war Iraq would number in the hundreds of thousands.

[SLB]

I posted these to another thread yesterday.

I did a little research on American troops numbers and deaths in Vietnam.

On this date - 7 July

1965 Average of 125,000 in country and 13 deaths
1966 Average of 385,000 in country and 20 deaths
1967 Average of 525,000 in country and 52 deaths
1968 Average of 525,000 in country and 54 deaths
1969 Average of 536,100 in country and 33 deaths
1970 Average of 400,000 in country and 21 deaths

Americans have gotten so used to winning "huge" battles or conflicts with a minimum loss of life. Since the first of May there have been about 30 deaths in Iraq, granted each is a tragedy, but what would the public outcry be if the death toll was the same as one day in Vietnam with about the same number of soldiers involved? Look at the figures for 1965 - 13 in just one day!