Jonah Goldberg: Democracy will be severely damaged if Californians recall Gray Davis

Union Leader ^ | 7/08/03 | JONAH GOLDBERG

[StockAyatollah]

Who cares what Boy-Jonah thinks? This is why neocons are not to be trusted. They are not conservatives - just mushy-middlers. Any real conservative would want Gov. Gray-out gone by any means necessary, ASAP.

[William McKinley]

The piper always gets paid. "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later".

Do Californians seem to demand a free ride entirely too often? In my opinion, yes. And they are paying for this free ride by now having it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for a small home, by having utilities prices through the roof, by having an oppressive tax code. It is likely to get worse, too.

[Drango]

Yeah Jonah, like the Republicans could be any worse off in California.

[TheGeezer]

California has led the country in political trends for decades now. That’s why Californians must be punished. If they’re not punished now, we all will be later.

Californians' punishment comes from living there, voting as they do, recalling as they please (recalls are a sound mechanism of democracy), and then living with the the wacked-out joker they will next elect. "rev" Al Sharpton may even be able to be elected in that joke-off.

This incident is the end of California's political trendiness. Maybe, finally, the rest of the nation can view the Republic of California with the jaundiced eye it deserves.

[GladesGuru]

From the other end of America, it looks like the California people worked long and hard for their present debacle. Davis is but the tip of the iceberg - the fault is truly in "the people".

Having been the most "progressive" state, and the term "progressive" having been chosen as a substitute for 'communist" or socialist", you pilgrims chose your path and diligently followed it.

The land there in California is good; just the voting population has gone bad. Having defined the problem, I should like to submit a "Modest Proposal".

Perhaps the entire Magnificent Seven non-socialist registered voters left in California should combine with California’s Freepers and such Pubbies and other conservatives as may still be in California.

Having combined to form a sort of a 'more perfect union' - - ship all the Closet Commies, Greenies, Liberals, and socialists of all sizes, sorts, and descriptions down to Mexico, and start a new electorate in California.

Such a move would be perhaps somewhat popular - - Mexico is, after all, the closest communist/socialist social pool with lots of cess to spare.

[DB]

Read my #17 post.

[big gray tabby]

I think what he's trying to say--without coming right out and saying it--is that the stench of Gray Davis's failures will be around for a long time. The state's problem's are virtually un-fixable. Why send in one of our guys to ride the thing to Hell?

Since there's little to gain from replacing the guy with one of ours, and since the next guy will be pinned with a share of Davis's mistakes (The Bush Economy, anyone?), why not just let the place wallow in their stupidity?

[William McKinley]

I read it.

I stand by my assertion. The price will be paid; it cannot be avoided. Pay now, or pay later.

Keeping Davis in office would be an act of self mutilation on the part of the California voters.

[bert]

I can't totally disagree.

California with the tendency to hold referenda on so many questions rather than trust the elected representatives, is tending toward unadultrated democracy.The recall is evidence of that trend. Voting by the masses can take place more or less at the will of the mass.

The lesson learned long ago is that the masses can't be trusted with the option of voting on every issue. That was reserved for the representatives who after debate and rational consideration would determine the disposition ofthe issue.

If any thing, the recall effort may cause a turning away from the rifraff taking control and a reversion to representative government. When you vote, you consider carefully the person you trust with decisions.

[DB]

That's the point.

The price will be paid and it hasn't been paid yet.

Electing someone else will only divert the blame to the new governor when the paying/pain starts. Davis and his supporters deserve to be the focal point when the pain actually begins. There is no avoiding the pain no matter who is in office now.

[William McKinley]

The house is on fire, but the lease is not up. Don't answer the tenents' call for the firemen, because they won't feel the brunt of their bad decision to smoke in bed if the fire is extinguished. Lock them in, because if they escape they won't feel the pain of their consequences.

[DB]

That would be true if they could put the fire out.

The fact is they can't.

The tenants' are going to burn either way.

Better to have those responsible take the hit statewide instead of just the governor’s office for a short time.

[commish]

Agree with everything you say, but I cannot help thinking that we may be opening a Pandora's Box that will not close.

A recall is a powerful tool when used right, and I have no doubt that it is being done for all the right reason's in this case -- but, Liberals think completely different and I can see them using the recall mechanism over and over and over in an attempt to "get back" at the evil VRWC.

I alos would not put it past the California Legislature to completely rewrite the recall laws in their favor if Greyout falls.

[DB]

I should add:

So that more tenants' don't burn in future.

[Alberta's Child]

Actually, I think Goldberg makes a very compelling case here. Having lived in both the U.S. and Canada, I am certain that a parliamentary system of government is inferior to a representative republic like we have in the U.S. The major flaw to the parliamentary system is that the inherent uncertainty of election dates (along with the fact that the ruling party essentially rigs the election process by scheduling the elections at a time that works in their favor) makes for a difficult political and business climate.

And Goldberg is right in another respect: Incompetent governors like Gray Davis ought to be impeached, not "recalled." Allowing voters to recall a governor lets the legislature off the hook for taking responsibility for oversight of the executive branch.

I'm generally in favor of empowering voters as much as possible, but there is something to be said for forcing people to sleep in the beds they've made for themselves. The whole notion of a recall is a product of a short public attention span, coupled with a 1980s "Atari culture" in which people simply assume that the RESET function on their Asteroids game can be applied to all other areas of their lives.

[Alberta's Child]

Good point, Jim. See #35, though I must add that I will defer to Calilfornians in a case like this. The Tenth Amendment was intended specifically to allow states to implement whatever "extraordinary" election processes they felt necessary.

[Alberta's Child]

That's an excellent point. This is why a candidate's character is his most important asset. The primary consideration in any election should not just be the candidate's views on the issues currently at hand, but the candidate's ability to deal with issues that aren't even known to the voters when they enter the voting booth.

A recall effort allows voters to ignore the latter and focus entirely on the former.

[jmaroneps37]

My dear Jonah
Democracy is democracy even when it involves things that YOU don't like. California's day as a national political trend setter are over. Will each and every state now elect a total Democrat controlled government?- or Republican ,for that matter? Recall basically only exists in the Western states. We here in the East would not be able to get recall under any circumstances. Relax young man, this is the messiness of democracy. We have at each other in the voting booth, not with weapons.

[Dog Gone]

Well, whatever happens, I think we should take this opportunity to collect 65 signatures to put a Freeper on the ballot in California.

Who wants to volunteer to be Davis's replacement?

[SauronOfMordor]

The only solution for California will be to severely cut back on the welfare-state goodies, and get serious about deporting illegal immigrants. This won't happen while Democrats are in charge.

For decades, the policy of the Forest Service was to put out fires as they happened -- with the net result that the deadwood accumulated until it fueled a fire that could no longer be contained

It may be that the only solution is to let CA go, and rebuild from the ashes.