Palestinians: 'Zionist' Christians illegitimate

World Net Daily ^ | 7/5/03

[truthandlife]

At a conference this week, Palestinian church leaders declared American Christians who support Israel's right to the Holy Land based on biblical grounds have no connection to true Christianity.

The three-day event in Bethlehem featured speeches by Archbishop Munib Yunan, Manuel Chassasian and Fr. Marun Laham who emphasized "Zionist Christianity is not connected to Christianity in any way," the Palestinian Authority daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida reported, according to Israel-based Palestinian Media Watch.

The leaders called for the Zionist Christians to be repudiated and discussed holding conferences in the United States to further the views of Palestinian churches.

In a lecture, conference President Jarris Khouri linked the return of Jesus from Egypt to Israel to the Palestinian aspiration for refugees to return to homes they had before the creation of the modern state of Israel.

Khouri said without such a return there will not be a just peace.

The speakers said the Christian Zionists are opposed to the U.S.-backed "road map to peace" and are against the Palestinian rights.

[Salem]

"In any case this is not some weird cult but a highly respected mainstream Jewish movement..."

Well, thank-you, ma'am, I appreciate the clarification and education. My apologies if I came across boorish. Please understand that I've spent over a decade with many different professional people, especially during the time up to the Millenium, contending with some pretty violent cult scenarios with belief structures of every type, most based in some type of warped Christian foundation. I have to admit it's almost reactionary now on my part, everytime I come across a "movement," like the one in question, which dictates a "death sentence" simply because others don't believe as they do. I get irritated real fast.

But then this type of intellectually oppressive tact is evident every time an Islamic constructed bomb goes off somewhere in the world.

Judaism and Christianity, whether we like to admit the connection between the two, is better than that.

'kay?

[Brian Allen]

These guys say what they say -- or are murdered.

Die now or die forever.

[AnnaZ]

See post #7 .

[Salem]

"Unlike Christians who have viewed Jews either as damned or agents of the devil..."

Well, that might be a little generalized, but duly noted. I just finished a book by Dave Hunt which went into great detail on the persecution of the Jews by "Christendom" over the centuries. History is undeniable, Christianity has had it's travails in the hands of imposters and pretenders. Yet, I, and others, don't count ourselves as one with them.

"...Jews view Christians as wayward brothers. "

Indeed. As you said, "Rather, theirs is a theological disagreement that will be ended when the Messiah reveals himself."

Blood Brothers ~

Until then, we have a common enemy.

AMERICA AT WAR

[Nachum]

who began to claim that he was the Messiah, although he never made that claim for himself.

Just a point of information-

The term is the definition of messiah (moshiach) is far different in Judaism than to Christianity. You may already know all this but it helps to point it out to others.

[Alouette]

Noahide.com is a homepage of a single sect of Judaism.

Noachides are not Jews. They are gentiles who have adopted the Law of G-D which was given to Noah at end of the Flood. There are seven laws, very briefly, there are these:

1. Do not worship idols. Now, some Noachides happen to believe that worshipping Jesus as a diety is forbidden, while other Noachides remain Christians.

2. Worship G-D and do not blaspheme His Name.

3. Do not commit immorality. This includes incest, adultery and homosexuality.

4. Do not commit murder, this includes abortion.

5. Do not steal.

6. Maintain courts of justice and law enforcement.

7. Do not eat meat taken from an animal while it is still alive (gross cruelty of animals). Noachides are allowed to eat meat. It does not have to be kosher.

Noachides sometimes complain that they do not receive enough guidance and support from the rabbis. The reason for this is that the rabbis have enough to do looking after the Jewish community and do not have the time to spare ministering to a non-Jewish congregation. Noachides should establish their own seminaries and train their own ministers and there may be rabbis who will help to get them started in this process.

Z.C. if I've made any incorrect statements, please set thigs straight, OK?

[Zionist Conspirator]

My apologies for my tardiness. I've just now logged on after Yom Shevi`i. I haven't looked at Ethan Allen's links but will do so.

[BenR2]

At first I thought they were just another coven of cowardly Episcopalians. However, Munib Yunan is an Evangelical Lutheran and member in good standing of the World Council of Churches. The other two I suppose are also card carrying members of the WCC. If so, that explains everything.

///
Good post.

[BenR2]

The problem these particular church people have is that what they are calling "Zionist Christianity" is really American Protestantism.
These guys are just traditional bigots. Ignore them.

//////////////
Good point. (At least Evangelical American Protestantism.)

[BenR2]

"Replacement Theology" is just what it is. Jesus, no matter how much they protest, is indeed a Zionist and King of the Jews (Jesus said these pagans named him as such themselves).

He will return to kill them. They think they can resist.

////////////
I think your post prett well nails it.

[American in Israel]

So, this Mental, er ... Mendal guy. Do you bow down and worship him? Kiss his feet? Give him money? :-D

They can't, he's dead. They bought pagers to know when he arose again, still buying batteries I suppose...

I think Rabbi worship is pretty silly. First thing the Noachide rules do is take away three of the Commandments of God. I guess the "good" Rabbi thought he had a better idea than the origional author.

I respect Jews, but I dislike Rabbi worship immensely. They even have pictures of this guy all over Jerusalem with the title "king messiah" on it. Most people ignore it, some graffiti artists use the pictures for canvas. But Christians cannot get too uptight about it, after all when God plays hide and seek, He is real hard to find. You gotta be looking so hard He feels sorry for you and lets you find Him. Like the saying in Zachariah above, one day soon they will look on Him who they have pierced, and not likely sooner.

[Zionist Conspirator]

First thing the Noachide rules do is take away three of the Commandments of God. I guess the "good" Rabbi thought he had a better idea than the origional author.

There was no need for such a nasty and insulting passage. Shame on you.

Which commandments do the Noachide "rules" do away with? You mean the one on Shabbat? The Noachide "rules" were given to Adam, Noah, and Abraham before the Revelation at Sinai. The Shabbat was given to Israel at Sinai and is not part of the Noachide obligations. If you refer to honoring father and mother, the traditional Jewish position is that this is so instinctive that the Noachides did not need to be commanded to do it and that they surpass the Jews themselves.

As long as you're going to accuse Noachides of subtracting from the "Commandments," why not complain about the lack of a requirement to eat kosher food? Are you saying that only `Aseret HaDevarim (the "Ten Commandments") are from G-d and the rest of the Torah is man-made? If so then you are liberal enough to be an official of the World Council of Churches.

I know how you people think because I used to be one of you. Your absolute refusal to even consider the possibility that the Jewish position is correct makes your charge that Jews have never considered the claims of J*sus to be starkly hypocritical. Your a priori assumption that the "new testament" is valid is a violation of the principals of logic (a fallacy called "affirmation of the consequent").

Do you accept J*sus on the authority of Genesis or Genesis on the authority of J*sus? If the latter you are really mixed up, as the Israelites never needed the authority of J*sus to accept the Torah.

The sad thing is that the religion you espouse originated with and is best represented by these "palestinian chr*stians" you so despise, and it is ultimately on their authority that you accept the "new testament" and J*sus to begin with.

[Tamar1973]

These are the race once called Philistines...and thy do as the Philistines have always done as enemies of God's people.. David vs Goliath II

Philistines were not Ishmaelites. Philistines were Greek immigrants to the area. Arabs are Ishmaelites.

[Ethan_Allen]

"Replacement Theology" is just what it is. Jesus, no matter how much they protest, is indeed a Zionist and King of the Jews "

OLD COVENANT WAS BROKEN

Jer 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/11/10.html


REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY AS SPOKEN BY GOD:

Isa 65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and CALL HIS SERVANTS BY ANOTHER NAME: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/65/15.html




Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Luk/13/6.html

Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]:

Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down.

again


Mat 21:18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

Mat 21:20 And when the disciples saw [it], they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.





NEW COVENANT PROMISED [AND FULFILLED IN JESUS CHRIST]

KJV English Concordance for "new covenant "

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:



Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.



Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/index.html


TWO JERUSALEMS/ZION

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal004.html#21


ISRAEL OF GOD / JESUS IS NOT JUST KING OF THE JEWS; HE IS KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD, and those who try to relegate him to the former do Him a disservice and do hinder the Kingdom of God:


Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/49/6.html



Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. ***For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/9/6.html

Rom 9:7 ***Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Rom 9:8 ***That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/9/8.html





Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Isa 56:2 ***Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Isa 56:3 ***Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I [am] a dry tree.

Isa 56:4 ***For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:5 ***Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isa 56:6 ****Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:7 ****Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isa 56:8 ****The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.


Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL NATIONS, KINDREDS, AND PEOPLE, AND TONGUES, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ***** http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa056.html#3

[Ethan_Allen]

John 3:16: Still True Today

Jhn 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/3/16.html

[Ethan_Allen]

Well, better give it another go round. You crashed and burned out in the weeds.

You err.

Do you bow down and worship him? Kiss his feet? Give him money? :-D

No, sir, not I.

[Ethan_Allen]

"You should have attended a Bible class, judging from the silly comments that you posted on this thread showing that you are incapable of reading an entire chapter in context, or an entire book of the Prophets from beginning to end. You pick out here and there what you like and toss the rest. "


You don't get it; you may never get it. You are the one with the 'pick and choose', selective-memory religion. YOU do not understand that God spoke in parables, as did His son. The Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Jesus came and FINISHED what He came to do. Now it's up to His disciples to do the rest. And if they keep listening to the fables propagated by the infiltrated 'Christian' churches, they will never get the job done.


Christians, go back and read the last words Jesus spoke to His Father, the Pharisees, the people in the street, His disciples. He gave us power TO TREAD ON SERPENTS. His kingdom was set up when He rose from the dead. It was the rock that hit the feet of Daniel's vision. It is the mustard seed that will grow into a tree to fill the whole earth.

There's a website that addresses this issue. It's called SAVE CHRISTIANITY; FIRE YOUR PREACHER. Look it up. Check every word spoken by me or anyone else by the word of God.

http://www.blueletterbible.org

[Ethan_Allen]

Did I mention that our Congress and our Presidents from Nixon on down, have written these phoney 'laws' into US Law? Do a search for Education Day USA Schneerson.

Do you know that the Georgia state legislature considered a bill to make execution by guillotine legal?

Do you know our Supreme Pagans are considering the same?

I could care less if people want to practice a hate-filled religion on their own time. But when they start making it a requirement for me they have crossed the line.

more here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/939887/posts?page=32

[Ethan_Allen]

p.s.

hate-filled

do a google search on the Talmud

[4CJ]

So, now besides conservatives being labled "paleo-conservative," followers of Jesus are now "Zionist Christians." Divide the sheep when the sheep get too powerful...

Liberals divide, conservatives unite. Call me Zionist.