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Swingers branch out [Private sex acts OK, judge rules]
Toronto Sun ^ | 2003-07-05 | CP

Posted on 07/05/2003 4:05:06 AM PDT by Lorenb420

MONTREAL -- Swingers clubs will spring up across Canada because of a judge ruling their activities are not necessarily illegal, the head of a swingers group said yesterday. Municipal court Judge Denis Boisvert found five people guilty of swinging-related offences, but decided "contemporary Canadian society tolerates swinging and swingers clubs if the sexual acts take place in private."

Jean Hamel, president of the 8,000-member Quebec Swingers Association, said Boisvert's ruling will have national significance.

"I don't think more clubs will open in Quebec but I think it will open doors for other places in Canada, like Toronto."

Judge Boisvert found a man and his daughter guilty on two counts each of running a bawdy-house. Three other people were convicted of being present in a bawdy-house.

At the heart of the ruling was the notion of public sex versus private sex.

"If the sexual acts take place in public, even among consenting adults, that is no longer swinging, but an orgy," he wrote. "And Canadians do not tolerate orgies or other Canadians participating in orgies."


TOPICS: Canada; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 07/05/2003 4:05:07 AM PDT by Lorenb420
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To: Lorenb420
As it should be. What 8 or 9 concenting adults do is their own business, as long as they don't scare the horses.
2 posted on 07/05/2003 4:46:52 AM PDT by tlb
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To: tlb
What 8 or 9 concenting adults do is their own business, as long as they don't scare the horses.

Oh Canada--where men are sometimes men and sheep are scared.

3 posted on 07/05/2003 4:58:45 AM PDT by DaBroasta (The Clintons make the Rosenbergs look like patriotic Americans)
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To: Lorenb420
Another success for Clinton's legal team.

It depends on what the definition of orgy is.
4 posted on 07/05/2003 5:05:23 AM PDT by Bluntpoint (Not there! Yes, there!)
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To: Bluntpoint
It depends on what the definition of orgy is.

In the strictest Roman tradition, it's not an orgy unless food is served.

5 posted on 07/05/2003 5:12:12 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: CholeraJoe
Avoid all foods in a heavy cream sauce.
6 posted on 07/05/2003 5:15:34 AM PDT by Bluntpoint (Not there! Yes, there!)
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To: Bluntpoint
There's two possible answers, light and heavy.

A) what if they gave an orgy, and...(forget it...)

B) Just slippin' and slidin' on the road to Gehenna.

I second the latter. This is actually a sick sign of VERY pathological times. Mark muh word.
7 posted on 07/05/2003 5:27:12 AM PDT by Psalm118
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To: Psalm118
The biggest reason I will never attend an orgy:

I would just have more people disappointed with my performance the next morning.

I would also have a pocket full of phone numbers that are all really Time and Weather numbers.
8 posted on 07/05/2003 5:33:34 AM PDT by Bluntpoint (Not there! Yes, there!)
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To: Bluntpoint
Honesty is the best policy.
9 posted on 07/05/2003 5:51:03 AM PDT by the_rightside
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To: Bluntpoint
I would also have a pocket full of phone numbers that are all really Time and Weather numbers.

ROFL!

10 posted on 07/05/2003 6:14:49 AM PDT by DAnconia55 (Taxation is a greater threat to the family than gay sex is.)
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To: Lorenb420
This really does bring up an interesting question regarding prostitution. I'm NOT going to get into the morality of it. I'm talking strictly about the legalities. Although this ruling has no bearing in the US, it's quite possible that the SCOTUS ruling on "privacy" will. I've heard the comparison of prostitution and illegal drug use in terms of the "privacy" issue, but I don't think that they are comparable. In this case, I'll use "grass" as the example of illegal drugs (I just don't want to keep typing "marijuana")

The first issue is that it is illegal to grow, posses, sell, or use grass. It doesn't matter where it's done, it's still illegal, whether it's on your own private property or not. On the other hand, as we've seen now, sex between two consenting adults, in the privacy of their home has been ruled legal. Sex is not illegal between 2 consenting adults: But the crime of prostitution seems to be the exchange of something of value for sexual acts. The key is that those acts are NOT illegal, if there's no exchange. So that brings up the question, if you're on a date, and you pay for the lady's dinner, movie, or whatever, and you "get lucky," should that be illegal as prostitution? You've given her something of value, and gotten sex in return. Or how about when a husband gives his wife a valuable gift, like a diamond ring? If she "rewards" him, why is this OK, while a man who gives a prostitute the same ring, or something else of value committing a crime? It would seem that Does the fact that they're married make giving gifts to a wife OK, but to someone else that you have sex with a crime? If so, that would effectively grant the state the right of licensing and sanctioning sex between two consenting adults, which given this ruling, the state can't do.

I guess I just wanted to get some other ideas on this. It seems to me that this latest SCOTUS ruling has really opened up a pandoras box on this issue and others.

Mark

PS The reason that I bring this up is that in the Kansas City area, there's a massive crackdown going on with prostitution, and it's been in the papers and on the TV news. Two weeks ago, they made more than 100 arrests.

11 posted on 07/05/2003 6:18:39 AM PDT by MarkL (OK, I'm going to crawl back under my rock now!)
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To: MarkL
It seems to me that this latest SCOTUS ruling has really opened up a pandoras box on this issue and others.

As much as the defenders of this decision deny it, it does open up a lot of other challenges.

Prostitution can be tacitly legislated since it is a commerical transaction.

Not so incest. There is a current case in California where a 17 year old boy is being charged with a felony count of incest for having sex with his 22 year old sister (who has not been charged). She got pregnant but miscarried the child so that is not an issue in the charge.

The people who supported the reduction of sentencing against members of the same sex who commit acts of statutory rape (or child molestation) (they thought 17 years sentencing was extreme for a homosexual act committed by an 18 year old on a 14 year old) have been silent on thi consensual incest case.

If a person grows the marijuana at home (indoors) and smokes it at home (indoors), and does not traffic in his stash, I don't know if the states or feds can legislate against it anymore (as long as there is no commerce). After all it is the act of a consenting adult in the privacy of his or her own home.

Don't expect to see these other laws dropped as quickly as all of the sodomy laws were. Other sex laws will remain to be challenged as will drug laws, and other privacy laws.

Even the states that are trying to outlaw tobacco smoking at home (under the guise of child abuse) don't seem to feel threatened by the Supreme Court's stance on privacy.

Think that the Court's recognition of privacy will keep the doctors from sharing medical information with the pharmecutical companies or police?

12 posted on 07/05/2003 6:31:18 AM PDT by weegee
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To: CholeraJoe
Q: Why don't nice Southern girls partake in orgies?

A: She'd have to write too many thank you notes.

13 posted on 07/05/2003 6:48:04 AM PDT by ImProudToBeAnAmerican (President Bush ROCKS THE FREE WORLD!)
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To: ImProudToBeAnAmerican
Q: What do Southern girls say during sex?

A: "Stop, Daddy. Yer mashin' mah cigarettes."

14 posted on 07/05/2003 7:41:55 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: ImProudToBeAnAmerican; CholeraJoe
What's the mating call of the Southern Belle?

" . . . I'm Soooooooooo drunk . . . "

15 posted on 07/05/2003 7:52:06 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: AnAmericanMother; ImProudToBeAnAmerican
What's the mating call of the Southern Belle?

" . . . I'm Soooooooooo drunk . . . "

Unless she's a redhead in which case it's "Next!"

16 posted on 07/05/2003 8:01:55 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The mating call of the Northern girl...

"Do you have any white friends?"
17 posted on 07/05/2003 1:23:01 PM PDT by gcruse (There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women[.] --Margaret Thatcher)
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To: weegee
Prostitution can be tacitly legislated since it is a commerical transaction.

Well, maybe not... In order to skirt the laws (unsuccessfuly), it seems that prostitutes designate their payments as gifts, saying that the "gift" is a token of appreciation for their time. As such, if it really is a "gift," then according to the tax codes, it is NEVER taxable income, and the "gift giver" is only subject to paying a gift tax if the total annual "gift" exceeds $11,000 to this one individual. As such, I believe that there may be some validity to the assertion that it is not a commercial transaction, any more than when a boyfriend gives his girlfriend a diamond pendant or earrings, and she thanks him in a private and personal manner. It could be considered a gift in the truest sense of the word. Technically, the prostitute is not forced or in any way compelled to provide the "gift giver" with sex.

Mark

18 posted on 07/07/2003 11:25:41 AM PDT by MarkL (OK, I'm going to crawl back under my rock now!)
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To: MarkL
How do you see this scenario...which is very common in my area:Advertisement for a massage....$50 per hour.I called one to check it out.(didn't visit-just interested in the number of ads and decided to call)Her deal was $100 for a "sensual" massage and she would be nude and "take care" of you.So let's say you do that in her apartment or wherever she lives,does this constitute a crime?You're in her home,right? Is this transaction legal because you're in her home which is private property? Seems as though this is a popular trend....just wondering.
19 posted on 07/07/2003 11:39:37 AM PDT by oust the louse
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To: oust the louse
I put the grrr in swingrrr baby.
20 posted on 07/07/2003 11:42:50 AM PDT by exile (Exile)
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