FBI seeking all Makarov replacement barrels

Michigan Gun Owners Message Boards ^ | 6-25-03 | Jim Simmons

[Dan from Michigan]

FBI seeking all Makarov replacement barrels

The FBI is conducting a nationwide campaign to seize, and ballistically fingerprint, all Makarov 9 mm replacement barrels manufactured by Federal Arms Corp.

Anyone who has purchased a barrel from FAC may receive a call from the FBI, asking that they "voluntarily" surrender the gun and the barrel so the FBI can fire two rounds through it to take a ballistic fingerprint.

This appears to be part of the investigation into the homicide of Thomas Wales, an Assistant U.S. Attorney who was murdered in his Seattle, WA home in October, 2001. Wales was also involved in Washington CeaseFire, a gun control group. Apparently, ballistics from his homicide indicate that the fatal rounds were fired from a Makarov replacement barrel.

If you are contacted by the FBI regarding your Makarov replacment barrel, contact an attorney IMMEDIATELY before you talk to them or before you surrender your barrels to them.

[Travis McGee]

You've got it.

[Travis McGee]

One of the many little factoids discussed in my book is that high velocity hollow points, say going upwards of 3,000 FPS, don't leave enough of an intact slug to get any kind of so-called "ballistic fingerprint."

In my novel, they can't even narrow the caliber down conclusively to .223.

[Travis McGee]

The use of "confiscated but un-logged" weapons taken from "right wing extrmeists" is a good chunk of my book.

Old Billy Bob in Montana thinks he's catching a break when the ATF merely takes his weapon, without arresting him.

Later, the weapon is "found" at the scene of a crime in another state, "proving" the national scope of the dreaded right wing militia movement.

This also leaves Billy Bob in a very tricky spot.

The mischief the feds can do with OUR weapons under THEIR control is enormous.

Remember, THEY run the ballistic testing lab.

[Travis McGee]

If I recall correctly, the FBI was found in the aftermath of the Ruby Ridge case to have modified one or more of Weaver's legal weapons to create a crime to charge him with.

There was also much "ballistic mischief" done after Waco to "prove" their version of events, such as the illegality of the Mount Carmel AR-15s ex post facto.

[thoughtomator]

Four legs good, two legs better.

[George Smiley]

Do a little research into Chicago's CAGE unit.

When you find out what they're doing, it SHOULD disturb you greatly.

[Technogeeb]

On what basis could they ever get a warrant?

I don't think they could, unless they could find a corrupt judge.

That shouldn't be a problem; in the past, the BATF has found judges that will pre-sign search warrants (blank, without the details filled out).

[wardaddy]

Boy, they get excited about another FLEA or Justice comrade getting killed.

I did not even know about this case and AUSAs don't get killed very often.

They left no stone unturned on the Camarena killing nor when the Judge was killed in San Antonio (early 80s).

Is this presumed to be a political killing or a robbery etc?

[archy]

The mischief the feds can do with OUR weapons under THEIR control is enormous.

Remember, THEY run the ballistic testing lab.

Are you familiar with the events of the *Kansas City Massacre* of June 17, 1933, during which escaped Leavenworth federal prisoner Frank *Jelly* Nash was being returned to federal custody by agents of the FBI forerunner *Bureau of Investigation*, the Kansas City P.D. and McAlester, Oklahoma police chief, Otto Reed. Arriving by train in Kansas City, they planned to make the rest of the trip via automobile in two cars, with the prisoner in a car owned by one of the feds. While getting in the car they came under attack by shooters with Thompson submachineguns [apparantly *rented* to the criminals by corrupt supervisors on the KCPD] attempting to free or silence Nash. The fed in the seat behind Nash was using a Winchester M97 pump shotgun borrowed from Chief Reed, as federal agents at that time had no authority to carry weapons of their own, as well as the Chevrolet sedan owned and driven by another of the agents, R.J. Caffrey. The Winchester M97 shotgun will fire every time the pump handle is operated if the trigger is held back; there's no cycle interrupter in the mechanism, though a disconnector prevents the hammer from falling until the action is fully closed, at which time the hammer drops- six shots so fired make for a potential response quite the equal of fire from a submachinegun.

Lackey, the fed with the shotgun, either out of panic or from being wounded when the ambushers opened up on the car from 15 feet away or so- he was hit in three places- [or very likely a little of both injury and panic] clamped his hand down on the weapon INCLUDING THE TRIGGER and continued cycling the foreend until the weapon was empty, and probably afterward as well. In doing so, his first shot, which may have been fired when he reflexively pulled the shotgun's trigger as he was first hit, killed handcuffed prisoner Nash, sitting in the front seat; Agent Smith, who was sitting beside Lackey in the back seat was uninjured but subsequent shotgun fire killed Chief Reed and Agent Caffrey, in front and blew out the vehicle's windhield. Special Agent R.E. Vetterli of the Kansas City office was wounded in one arm, but was outside the car and dropped down, and was therefore not hit by the shotgun fire coming from inside the vehicle- the machinegunners, firing from a car parked just a few feet from Caffrey's sedan, didn't bother further with him. Two Kansas City police detectives, Kansas City police officers W.J. Grooms and Frank Hermanson were also killed by gunfire during the shooting; the weapons used were the ones normally carried in their department's vehicle assigned to the detective bureau but were absent on that particular day....and in the hands of the shooters on the other side. Multiple gunmen, firing from 15 feet and it lasted for about 30 seconds...and then was very quiet.

Unfortunately for the Bureau of Investigations the Kansas City Coroner's investigation showed that those inside the car had died from shotgun fire, not the .45-caliber submachinegun bullets. Accordingly, Hoover directed the establishment of a federal crime investigations laboratory that could take control of evidence from local investigators and deliver results more to the federal agency's way of thinking. And when legal authority for the feds to carry weapons was granted, they were extensively trained on a variety of weapons- but there was one shotgun they were under orders NOT to use: that Winchester Model 97 with its convenient external hammer and that interesting feature that gave it more firepower than others of its type.

The following FBI investigation and rearrangement of evidence probably resulted in the framing of Charles Arthur *Prettyboy* Floyd for a part in the K.C. train station shootings that he likely had no part of. But he was shot and killed by the FBI before he could ever stand trial, so there was no need for the FBI to lie their way out of that little problem again.

The FBI has been corrupt from its very beginnings, and it's no better now.

-archy-/-

[harpseal]

Of course you are correct on teh kansas City shoot out. And the subsequent appearance of the FBI labratory. I for one would be very very hesitant about any such turn over to the FBI at least get a warrant. i know they can get one from some judge somewhere but it is an addition hurdle to pass.

[Darksheare]

The FBI is very corrupt, and further comprimised by Janet Reno's dealings.
However, there are four Feeber agents that I owe my freedom to.
I never got their names, and wish I had.
There had been a bank robbery in my area, and the four suspects got into a red Ford Explorer wagon.
My brother and I were driving up a nearby road in a red Buick Skylark.
We were pulled over by Park Service police.
We figured that they were pulling us over for speeding. (We'd been doing about 7 or so miles over.)
New York state troopers from Troop F, the most incompitent of NY's tropper 'echelons', showed up a little while later.
The park police had already done a 'felony stop' deal on us and searched the car top to bottom.
Troop F idiots started searching the car yet again, and found nothing. Then they started trying to pull parts off of the car.
Never once did the State Troopers bother checking the cars make, nor did they refer back to the initial report.
They had us turn our backs to the road and drove a 'witness' past us, who of course gave a positive I.D. from looking at our backs.

Four FBI agents drove out to have a look at us and instantly knew something was up.
One spoke to me while one spoke to my brother.
Our stories matched exactly, and the car was clean.
The other two went to speak to the 'officer in charge', the OIC smugly stated he was, as he had someone trying to put his throwdown gun into the passenger side seat.
The one FBI guy was watching him and asked what he was doing.
The trooper promptly stopped what he was doing and went to his vehicle.
It was then that we were told that the perps were caught in Pennnsylvania.

The state troopers STILL refused to let us go and insisted on speaking to us at Park Service HQ.
I was trundled off into a park service vehicle.
A state trooper attempted to start the car and failed, as there was a trick to it.
We laughed and he yelled at us to shut up.
My 'ride' split to Park Service local HQ.
The FBI trundled my brother off into their vehicle.

I was already in the NPS HQ parking lot when the radio told us to turn around and head to the fishing access just up the road.
We got there and the FBI had my brother uncuffed and next to the car, no state troopers in evidence.
I was still cuffed at this point.

The one thing that bothers me: Throughout this ordeal, the Park Service police kept saying, "These aren't our Joes." while the State Troopers insisted on pushing it even to the point of planting a gun.

Wish I knew who those Feebers were, I owe the four of them.
I just wish the rest of them were like those four.

[Darksheare]

Cripes I need to proof-read before hitting 'post'...

[Travis McGee]

Political I take it.

[Travis McGee]

When the FBI asks to "borrow your gun for testing" the correct response should be "are you out of your freakin mind?!?!"

[westmex]

I think there are a lot of paranoid people on this thread....

.....Westy.....

[Darksheare]

I have reason to be paranoid, the state troopers who patrol my area have a reputation for corruption and incompitence.

But yes, there are some paranoid folks here Westy.
Even worse than I!

[harpseal]

Well I have never had it happen to me so I can not say exactly what words I would use to inform them that there is not a chance in hell I would let them borrow a gun for testing.

[TC Rider]

I don't suppose they offered you a 'loaner'?

[TC Rider]

I've seen a few of these at the range. I'm impressed that it actually killed someone.

[westmex]

I had a second one in my belt while I was talking with them. Pulled it out and asked them if they wanted to check it too....They said no and that they were not use to people pulling guns on them....Soooooooo. Keep the thread going, I'll let yall know how it turns out.....

.....Westy.....