FBI seeking all Makarov replacement barrels

Michigan Gun Owners Message Boards ^ | 6-25-03 | Jim Simmons

[Dan from Michigan]

FBI seeking all Makarov replacement barrels

The FBI is conducting a nationwide campaign to seize, and ballistically fingerprint, all Makarov 9 mm replacement barrels manufactured by Federal Arms Corp.

Anyone who has purchased a barrel from FAC may receive a call from the FBI, asking that they "voluntarily" surrender the gun and the barrel so the FBI can fire two rounds through it to take a ballistic fingerprint.

This appears to be part of the investigation into the homicide of Thomas Wales, an Assistant U.S. Attorney who was murdered in his Seattle, WA home in October, 2001. Wales was also involved in Washington CeaseFire, a gun control group. Apparently, ballistics from his homicide indicate that the fatal rounds were fired from a Makarov replacement barrel.

If you are contacted by the FBI regarding your Makarov replacment barrel, contact an attorney IMMEDIATELY before you talk to them or before you surrender your barrels to them.

[Dan from Michigan]

I saw this posted on the MGOUC boards. I know the poster, Jim Simmons, personally, and trust him on this. He's an attorney on 2nd Amendment issues.

[NovemberCharlie]

I nearly hit "Report Abuse" instead of "Post Reply." Pity that button doesn't do what I'd really like it to..

This sounds like, "Well, the robber ran into this neighborhood, so let's search every house within eight blocks."

[Bogey78O]

Oh to hell with that.

I don't own a makarov but being a gun owner I can see them doing the same to anyone.

FWIW, I heard they "borrowed" some AR-15s when the DC sniping was going down to fingerprint them. Took some of the owners months of hassle for the BATF to return them.

[umgud]

If he were shot with a Ruger Single Six, where would the FBI get license to ask for all owners of said guns to turn them over for balistics testing? It's no different asking for Mak replacement barrels.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

The term "Piss up a rope" comes to mind.

[Cicero]

Well, if the FBI asks you for anything, you'd probably better talk to an attorney first. They don't exactly have a stellar record for respecting people's rights, nor do the courts have a stellar record of seeing that they obey the law.

[Ronin]

Sounds like someone is building a database, one barrel at a time.

Or maybe I am just suspicious.

[umgud]

Buy all your extra barrels at guns show with cash.

[Bogey78O]

I've only used cash. With the exception of one pistol I bought.

My last homeland defense rifle was bought with 11 single 20$ bills.

[Reeses]

investigation into the homicide of Thomas Wales, an Assistant U.S. Attorney who was murdered in his Seattle, WA home in October, 2001.

Some murders provoke more unreasonable searches by the government than others.

[Justa]

Ok, so the perp will break the law and kill a federal attorney but he'll comply with a request by the FBI to turn in the barrell?

Reason check = Fail.

[ahadams2]

somehow this seems either awfully desperate or awfully naive on the part of whichever fbi office initiated this...they've gotta stop letting guys who previously specialized in grand theft auto, put out idiot requests over a nationwide system. sheesh!

[Bogey78O]

No it's perfectly reasoned.

Only the killer will refuse. So whoever refuses has to be a criminal.

[Imal]

I wonder just how many of these barrels FAC has sold? If the number is in the tens of thousands, then this is completely absurd.

On the other hand, if the number is in the hundreds, then this might actually be a valid investigative move. Sometimes it takes unusual measures for the FBI to "always get their man". If a name on a FAC sales record happens to match a name that has already surfaced and is on a long list of possible suspects, it could break the case.

Ballistic fingerprinting, however, goes much further and I would expect some judicial oversight and evidence of probable cause if they are really trying to collect every barrel for such fingerprinting.

Certainly, if the FBI plans to fingerprint thousands and thousands of barrels from around the nation, as opposed to a much smaller number, I think some attorneys need to be called in and legal reality check conducted, if for no other reason than the expense and questionable practice of such a wide canvass.

Much more importantly, though, each fingerprinting legally constitutes a search from a civil rights perspective, and a burden upon everyone so searched. If there is insufficient probable cause for such searches, they may be prohibited on constitutional grounds.

I am definitely no fan of heavy-handed government, but if the numbers and conduct in this case point to valid criminal investigative technique instead of a general shakedown, and the rules of probable cause and appropriate legal restrictions are observed, I can't knock them for giving this a try in this case, particularly if they aren't getting results from other angles.

If they are trying to pull an end run around the law, however, then they must be stopped just like anyone else who would violate the law, because then they would be nothing more than criminals with badges.

[westmex]

You guys are a little late in all your advice...I was called about this a little over a month ago. Two lady agents came out to the house on 27 May to pick up the pistol..I had changed the barrel and later changed it back to the original...So, they wanted both the gun and replacement barrel...I called back Monday and got the story they had a barrel press on the way and I should be getting the gun back next week...So far I have no complaints on their actions....The guy was shot in Seattle and I live in a suburb......

.....Westy.....

[CurlyDave]

On the other hand, if the number is in the hundreds, then this might actually be a valid investigative move.

If the number is 10 or less it might be a valid investigative move.

What is wrong with the good, old-fashioned search warrant?

This sounds to me like a giant fishing expedition with lots of people's rights being trampled and little hope of success.

[lawdog]

"Only the killer will refuse. So whoever refuses has to be a criminal."

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head ! They aren't Fabulous But Incompetent for nothin'.

[Libertina]

BUMP Ping a ling. What were we just chatting about Shrew? This is about Tom Wales, WA CeaseFire head (deceased)
Hey Cyber, do your thing, pretty please :)

[Libertina]

A giant fishing expedition... Tom Wales' supporters have tried to blame the gun owners in WA. Last time I saw him (only time) he was leading a stupid protest against Charleton Heston at WAC. A couple weeks later he was dead. I am afraid this man annoyed many people, including the bad guys he put in jail. It seems to have been a professional, planned hit, not a robbery. I would like to have it solved.