FBI Agent Stresses Citizen Involvement (war on terror, homeland security)

The Pilot ^ | June 22, 2003 | MATTHEW MORIARTY

[FairOpinion]

The FBI wants to hear from you.

That’s what Tim Flynn, supervisory special agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s field office in Wilmington, said Tuesday at the Pinehurst Community Watch block captain’s meeting held in the village hall.

Citizen involvement is ultimately integral to homeland security, in these days: post-Sept. 11, 2001, he said.

“You are the ones that are going to give us the information that’s going to prevent the next terrorist attack,” Flynn said.

There’s probably not going to be an attack here, in Moore County or the rest of North Carolina, he said. But terrorists can plan and finance an attack here. And he said Fort Bragg is the top terrorist target in North Carolina.

He commended the Pinehurst Community Watch for its efforts to keep the area safe.

A lot has changed in the FBI since the events of Sept. 11, 2001, he said. The FBI still has weaknesses though.

“At the time, we had about three Arabic speakers,” he said. “That’s still a weakness of ours.”

Also, the FBI is not as diverse as it needs to be, he said. It’s made up primarily of white men. Twenty-three percent of the agents are women, and about 15 percent are black or Hispanic.

“The Asian-Middle Eastern [contingent] is miniscule,” he said.

Through his work in different parts of the world, Flynn said, one of the things that he came to realize about terrorists was that they are extremely efficient.

He told the story of a terror attack in Kenya that happened while he was working there. The terrorists set up a business to fund the attack two years in advance. The attack was to be on the U.S. Embassy. The terrorist knew exactly where to place the bomb for optimal damage.

Plus, they planned to make a distraction, to draw people to the windows, he said.

“A lot of times, in these attacks, it’s the glass that ends up killing people,” he said.

The plan was to drive a truck full of explosives into the embassy parking area and then have the two drivers blow it up, with themselves in it.

In this case, the terrorists didn’t get to execute their plan, because the Kenyan guards stopped them (which Flynn said is rare in Kenya — security there is usually very easy to bypass). Plus, the two in the truck couldn’t defuse the situation.

“They have a hard time finding intelligent people willing to blow themselves up,” Flynn said.

The passenger fled and the driver detonated the truck. The explosion killed about 200 Kenyans, Flynn said. Agents later caught the passenger. They knew it was him, because he still had shards of glass embedded in his back.

The terrorists nearly accomplished their plan and destroyed the embassy, Flynn said.

“It was a tragedy,” he said, “but it could have been worse.”

Today, the priorities of the FBI have changed, Flynn said. It spends most its time now on terrorism, counter intelligence and cyber-crime. Prior to Sept. 11, 2001, the top three priorities of the Fayetteville office were violent crime, drugs and white-collar crime, Flynn said.

One of the members of the audience was upset that the FBI was “neglecting” drug crimes, but Flynn said it just didn’t have the resources.

The FBI relishes citizen tips now, he said. In the past, someone could have called the FBI and given a tip, and it would get filed away and never looked at again.

“Now, we run it down,” Flynn said.

It’s important that people provide the FBI with information, he said. That’s why he supports the Pinehurst Community Watch. It can prevent terrorist attacks. Terrorists operate everywhere, he said.

“Are there terrorist cells in the United States?” he said. “I’m sure that there are. As a matter of fact, I know that there are.”

http://www.fbi.gov

[FairOpinion]

"Your aircraft has just been taken over by three armed men speaking a foreign language."
---
One flight attendant reported that the hijackers were spraying something, could be mace, or could have been cyanide, or could be cyanide the next time. Before you know anything is happening, you are dead. So now what are you going to do, since they have a gas mask and all you have is a gun, and you are dead, before you can find whom you should shoot.

Nobody says people shouldn't be armed, the point is that in many and actually most terrorist scenarios guns do NOT help.

[takenoprisoner]

The FBI are terrorists themselves. I've read about their work in Idaho (killing a mother holding an infant child in cold blood) and saw on TV their work in Texas where they killed some 80 Christian folks including infants and children.

I've also read what I consider convincing and credible evidence of their before hand knowledge of WTC1, OKC, and WTC2.

Finally, I saw on TV what they did to Richard Jewel. Now you want folks to trust them to do the right thing? I don't think so.

If you see something suspicious, report it to your local authorities and pray they have both common sense and the courage and wherewithall to keep the FBI out of it.

[Poohbah]

LOL!! guy you've got to stop getting your firearms training from television shows.

I got my training from the USMC.

So, back to my question, the one that you are deathly afraid to answer: near the front of the coach section, two men jump to their feet and pull out guns.

An Arab-looking gentleman across the aisle reaches into the left side of his coat.

Now tell me: who, IF ANYONE, do you draw down on?

Two seconds: GO!

[FairOpinion]

The point is also that it is far better to PREVENT and foil an attack BEFORE it happens.

[ExSoldier]

"What is the success rate vs. the failure rate for this?"

Who cares? That time the success rate was 100%. It has happened before. I remember another well publicized incident where a group of terrorists opened up with AK 47's at a bus stop in Jerusalem and were cut short and cut to pieces when the assembled Israeli citizens ALL drew concealed handguns and shredded them. One lucky survivor admitted to authorities that the problem of armed victims never even ocurred to them. Big Surprise!

I have some friends who live in the Holy land and they say that these kinds of things go on all the time. But the western/liberal press hate to report any but those which slip out by other means....forcing their hand. This is one reason that there is not much common street crime in Israel. Sure there are bombings, but not many folks want to take on a heavily armed and trained populace. Several years ago, the big terrorist target was Israeli schools. THAT stopped completely when the teachers were armed with Uzis. It has not restarted.

In 1999, there was the rare armed robbery at a Tel Aviv cafe...these two young thugs ran into the outside patio (as reported in the Miami Herald) and started shooting and demanding money. Whereupon about 20 diners stood up, drew and riddled the bad guys with about 20 slugs in each of the two perps. Nobody else was hit. When the smoke cleared, the diners verified that the threat was over, reholstered, and continued to finish their meals while waiting for the cleanup crew...ahh errr...I mean the POLICE to get there!

[Poohbah]

Who cares? That time the success rate was 100%.

The plural form of "anecdote" is NOT "data."

It works if the bomber is completely incompetent AND unlucky. Otherwise, it fails--whereas, because you refuse to talk to the cops you despise so much, you don't tell them about those questionable young men in the apartment downstairs, and then you see him at the supermarket as he reaches into his pocket and hits the detonator.

Hoping that the bomber is dumber AND unluckier than you are is NOT a method for achieving success.

[Oztrich Boy]

Now tell me: who, IF ANYONE, do you draw down on?

At this moment noöne. But I'm pegging the two guys with guns as hijackers, and the Arab looking gentleman as a probable air marshall.

[Poohbah]

At this moment noöne. But I'm pegging the two guys with guns as hijackers, and the Arab looking gentleman as a probable air marshall.

Well, an air marshal wouldn't have gotten waxed like that guy did--he popped out and got popped by one of the hijackers before he could get a shot off.

Gee, Tex, looks like no one's arguing with the hijackers. Whaddaya do?

[takenoprisoner]

I would agree that it is better to prevent. But in most cases I've learned, the FBI has been complicit in the planning using informants and such trying to catch the "big guy" at the expense of the innocent and unknowing who die.

Besides, in the scenario you presented here, it was armed guards that foiled the attack and not the FBI. A point well taken.

[FairOpinion]

The point is also that it is far better to PREVENT and foil an attack BEFORE it happens.

I just remembered something: prior to 9-11, an actor James Wood noticed some people who looked like they could be terrorists, and may be intending to hijack the plane -- note this was BEFORE 9-11. He actually got a message to the pilot, but when they landed, nobody took the suspicious men in custody, or even question them.

Two of the four were two of the 9-11 hijackers. In that case he did his citizen duty, but the authorities didn't take him seriously, but they would today. Just think, they could have prevented 9-11, and a similar report to the authorities may prevent a next tragic attack.

http://www.jillnicholson.com/transcri.htm


WOODS: Well, first I have to back up and tell you about the flight that I took. The flight I took was actually on August 1st. And I have not talked about this in the press until this day because there was a lot of misinformation that came out about it.

I was on a flight, without going into the details of what made me suspicious of these four men, although it would have been blatantly obvious to the most casual observer, I took it upon myself to go to the flight attendant and ask to speak to the pilot of the plane. The first officer came out. I reported to him that I felt that the four men, and I said, "Can you look over my shoulder and see who I'm talking about?" And he said, "Yeah." I said I think they're going to hijack this plane. I mean, everything they're doing, and I explained to him these details, which I've been asked to keep private, until whatever jurisdiction, you know -- whatever trials may take place, their behavior was such that I felt that they were going to hijack the plane.

I also said I'm very much aware of how serious it is to say on an American aircraft in flight the word hijack.

O'REILLY: Yes.

WOODS: So I'm saying this because I really have reason to believe it's true. I found out later that not only was -- did he make a report, but the flight attendant also made a report of my suspicions to the FAA.

When I got home that night, it had been a very turbulent flight, I had said to this woman I'm dating, and my girlfriend and my best friend, she said, "How was the flight?" And I said, "Well aside from the terrorists and the turbulence, it was fine," which was now in retrospect not such a very funny joke, but it was August 1 and nobody was thinking along those lines.

O'REILLY: Right.

WOODS: And when 9/11 happened, we were all stunned. And we all happened to be at my house that evening. And my friend Scott said to me, "You know, remember that flight you took in August?" I said, "Yes, I've been thinking about it all day." He said, "Well, maybe you should call the FBI." And I said, "I'm sure they're being inundated."

But I thought it over and I called the local office. And within two minutes got ahold of a very intelligent young man, a special agent there, who took the report. And I said, "I hope I'm not wasting your time." He said, "Well, we have so many reports coming in." And he said, "And by the way, even if this leads to something, we don't like to backwash information to people, because in case they have to go to a trial and be witnesses or whatever, so you won't hear from us."

I said, "Well, great." And he said, "But we appreciate your calling." Quarter to 7:00 the next morning, I get a phone call that actually wakes me up. And I say, "Hi." And they say, "Hi, this is -- I won't use their name, but the special agent, who's now been my contact and his partner." And they said, "We want to talk to you about the flight that you took in August. I said, "Oh, did the manifest match of any of the flights yesterday and my flight?" He said we can't tell you that. I said, "Well, look, I'll get ready and you know, I'll come down to the federal building." He said, "That's OK, we're outside your house. We'll just wait for you here."

O'REILLY: Wow, 7:15. So this is serious.

WOODS: Quarter to seven in the morning. And said -- and I -- and this is the only funny part of any of this. I said, "How did you know where I lived?" And there was a pause. He said, "We're the FBI, thank you."

O'REILLY: Right.

WOODS: So they came in. And I said, "Look, I'm dying to know, were these the guys? And he said, "Well, we've had 36,000 tips in one day. And there's two of us and we're going to be at your house all this morning. So you can do the math, but we can't tell you." You know, so since then, I have identified for sure two of them as two of the terrorists.

[ExSoldier]

"As I also mentioned, how will it help if everyone in an auditorium is armed, when cyanide, or anthrax is piped in via the air conditioning?"

Ah I see that somebody has been reading that awesome novel by Tom Clancy, RAINBOW SIX. That was one of the scenarios in the novel...except it was a biotoxin as I recall. Stopping such a horrific act is going to be the result of an alert populace and a bit of luck. But what happens if the private citizen sees the suspicious behavior taking place and knows with certainty due to traffic, crowd or weather conditions that the authorities are not going to make it? If he is unarmed, he has the choice of trying to make it to safety on his own, or delay to get his family and buddies and try to make it out, or try to warn the crowd causing a panic that will probably aid the attacker in his mission objectives anyway. IF on the other hand he is armed, he has the additional option of trying at least to stop the threat himself...and I'll take a slim chance over "NONE" anyday!

[ExSoldier]

"you refuse to talk to the cops you despise so much..."

Despise? I used to BE one of them! I'm just realistic and I use my powers of observation when I see the agenda that has shaped the new cops of the "World Order" taking shape. That's because as a public school teacher since 1990, I have seen and fought the "agenda" that created them.

Let me tell you another little story: Right after 9-11 my students were all wanting my take on the situation based on my well known military background (not too many teachers like me around in this system...a few but not many). The first thing I did was to tell them we ought to be putting our arms around all the muslim students telling them we don't blame THEM for terrorism. MY FIRST COMMENT WAS THIS!!

Next thing I know, the assist principal is calling me into her office to say that one of my students has made a statement that I said that all Muslims should be shot. She didn't even check with my other kids to verify, just called me in to threaten my job!

A week or so passes and it happens again. The same scenario but stronger threats. Now, since they refuse to name the liar, I start my own investigation (this used to be my line of work) so I ask around and find a bunch of female teachers who are indeed scared to death of one particular kid who has been bragging to the female staff (remember the Taliban had very poor opinions of women and treated them worse) that he and his daddy were going to Yemen to train with OBL and the AQ terrorists and he was going to firebomb the school before he left and yada yada yada. I checked and bingo...he's in my Psychology class.

So I decide to talk to an occasional shooting buddy of mine...an FBI agent. He gets all the kids info from me.... name address etc. and he trots it over to the terrorism task force and then five FBI agents and a bunch of INS agents show up at my school (inner city Miami...huge Haitian population---how many illegal? Maybe 20%?) and start asking embarrassing questions of the administration. The kid is busted, the nest of illegal Egyptians in his apt are busted and the lot deported. Well, it didn't take a genius to figure out who called in the feds. I was left strictly alone by the bosses. My annual evaluation was exemplary and so fast it set speed records. But I wonder if this had anything to do with the truly CRAPPY teaching schedules I got for the next two years??? Ya think?

BTW, this FED that shoots with us...he does so, but he won't interact with any of us off the range and he won't make any comments on the truths of the Bill of Rights and the 2nd Amendment in particular. But I'll give him his due...when I called he acted and decisively!

[KDD]

The F.B.I. agents who snatched that little Cuban boy from his relatives home in Miami didn't look or act anything like those agents I watched on the television show, The F.B.I., when I was a kid either. What are they doing these days at Ouantico? Using Rambo flicks as training films? The F.B.I. has a credibility problem with a vast number of Americans.

What other law enforcement officer could shoot an innocent Boy Scout in the face and get off with an "oop's, my bad". The F.B.I. needs roto rootered.

[FairOpinion]

That is not fiction.

They already planned to do that in Europe a couple of years ago.

Bin Laden British cell planned gas attack on European Parliament
ISLAMIC terrorists based in Britain and controlled by Osama bin Laden planned a devastating attack in February on the European Parliament building in Strasbourg.

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/binladenB.htm

A six-strong terror cell funded by the Saudi fugitive planned to kill all 625 Euro-MPs, and scores of officials, by releasing sarin gas into the parliament building.

The attack was scheduled to take place during the session of parliament from February 11 to 14 this year and was to be the first in a series of assaults against prominent buildings across Europe. Algerian terrorists based in London and funded directly by bin Laden worked with counterparts in Milan and Frankfurt.

The plot was foiled after German police smashed the Frankfurt operation in a series of raids. The British-based six men were arrested and charged with offences under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

The charges were subsequently dropped just days after the men appeared at Horseferry Road magistrates' court, London. The Crown Prosecution Service said that the decision was made for security reasons.

Senior Special Branch officials have told The Telegraph that the decision to cease action was prompted by a request from MI5. It is believed that the intelligence agency had uncovered details of further atrocities and wanted to monitor the group.

[FairOpinion]

The general point is that no ONE thing is going to be the answer. I certainly agree that people should be armed and in some circumstances it may prevent a terror attack and it surely would discourage other crimes.

BUT you can't rely on just arming everyone, precisely because of the variety of things that terrorist could do. Information and acting on that information is the strongest weapon to prevent attacks.

[FairOpinion]

"when I called he acted and decisively!"

That was the point, exactly. You did the right thing in letting the FBI know. What the FBI advocating is exactly for people to keep an eye out and let them know about suspicious people, just as you did.

[FairOpinion]

"The F.B.I. agents who snatched that little Cuban boy from his relatives home in Miami"

I'll never forgive them for that. But actually I thought they were not the FBI but BATF guys? Just remember who gave them the orders.

Nor do I think they are acting intelligently chasing Hatfill as the anthrax killer, and ignoring a zillion things pointing at Al Qaeda & Saddam.

Now their orders are to PREVENT terrorist attacks at all costs, and they are all we've got.

What is the alternative? You can either let the FBI know and hope they follow up on suspicious people, or you can try to follow them around and either get yourself and other hurt, spook the terrorists, or maybe you end up shooting some innocent excentric idiot. As I said, letting the FBI know is still the best shot we have.

[ExSoldier]

I carry the local and national toll free FBI Terrorist Hotline numbers in my wallet. All I'm saying as are the rest of this august forum is that the Feds need to be more supportive of the Constitution in allowing and even encouraging citizens to be armed and trained so as to provide another very useful layer of Homeland Security. That's all. But a nation of snitches alone is NOT going to do the job. The people must have the ability and the freedom to act in the absence of that trained federal authority.

[eno_]

They have undergone a serious change of attitude since 9-11.

That's a very bald assertion with no support in the facts at all. Give me even ONE example.

Waiting...

Waiting...

[eno_]

Some people refuse to realize how serious the threat is.

You mean the people at the FBI that have not fired the jackass agents that shoot Eagle Scouts and do high fives while the victim bleeds?