Sarah Saga Q & A's from State Dept Daily Briefings

U.S. Department of State ^ | Various | State Department

[Ready4Freddy]

IIRC correctly, the (current) Saga saga started last Wed, June 18?? Here are the mentions of Sarah Saga in the DOS briefings since then

6/20/2003

QUESTION: Yes. Did Sara Saga leave your Consulate in Jeddah, as she had planned to do?

MR. REEKER: No, the U.S. citizen Sara Saga remains at the United States Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, with her two children. Ms. Saga is free to depart Saudi Arabia. The Saudi Foreign Ministry approved this request during a meeting with the chargé d'affaires of the United States Embassy on June 18th and they processed the necessary paperwork for her departure.

We understood that yesterday, Sara Saga had decided that she would leave Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. Consulate officials had told her that she could voluntarily change her mind about that decision. And the latest news we have is that she has done so. So she has made that --

QUESTION: Sara has changed her mind?

MR. REEKER: Exactly.

QUESTION: So she's what? Planning to stay in the Consulate at the moment or planning to go home or --

MR. REEKER: I can't speak for her. At this time she remains in the Consulate, and she may remain in the Consulate as long as she desires.
--------------------------
QUESTION: One question back on the Saga case. Do U.S. officials continue to discuss with the Saudis whether Sara's two Saudi citizen children would be allowed to accompany her if she left?

MR. REEKER: Let me go through what else we can say about that. I told you already that we understand that Ms. Saga has, at this time, determined that she was going to remain in the Consulate. That is the latest news that I have. And as I said, she may remain as long as she wants to.

Since her arrival at the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, she has had the full support of U.S. officials there and from our Embassy to Saudi Arabia, which is based, of course, in Riyadh, and here in Washington.

We have been vigorously engaged with the Saudi authorities at very high levels. The chargé d'affaires, of course, has been in Jeddah to assist in pressing this case with the Saudis.

I will remind you that the Government of Saudi Arabia made a commitment back in September of 2002 that all adult women would be free to travel out of Saudi Arabia, that is, all adult American women. And in every case raised with the Foreign Minister since this commitment, permission has been secured for American citizen women to depart.

None of the women who have been granted such permission have chosen to depart and we keep in regular contact with them. So we are in touch with them on this case.

QUESTION: Right. But you didn't answer my question. Is part of the discussion that her two children could continue to go? You have already achieved her permission to leave the country. Are you still discussing whether her children would be allowed to accompany her?

MR. REEKER: The commitment, in terms of what the Saudis have committed, to doesn't extend to children of those women.

QUESTION: I understand that. That's why I'm asking.

MR. REEKER: And under Saudi law, any child who resides in Saudi Arabia with his or her Saudi citizen father requires the father's permission. And so that is an issue in terms of the fact that she, Mrs. Saga, and her husband share legal custody of their two children. Obviously, neither parent wants to be separated from their children. So that is a custody issue that they will have to keep looking at.

QUESTION: So there's no sense in discussing that? No sense in the U.S. Government discussing that with the Saudi Government, then?

MR. REEKER: It is an issue that the two parents would have to address.

QUESTION: Okay.

6/23/2003

QUESTION: Do you have anything on the woman, American, and her children who are in the consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia?

MR. REEKER: In Jeddah, Ms. Saga, Sarah Saga, remains at the Consulate General in Jeddah, at least the last time I was able to check. We have, of course, made quite clear to her that she is free to remain there as long as she should determine. She did meet with her Saudi husband over the weekend at the U.S. Consulate there. They had some face-to-face as well as telephonic discussions that the consulate helped facilitate along with the Saudi Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Obviously, those are private discussions and I won't try to characterize her discussions between Ms. Saga and her husband. She will obviously make her own decisions on what she plans to do.

I think, as I made clear on Friday, she is free to leave Saudi Arabia, as she should decide, and our consulate has made quite clear she is also free to stay there.

Terri.

QUESTION: Can you talk about how she's being supported financially while she's there?

MR. REEKER: I don't know if I have any great details. In terms of financial support, I don't know what financial support she particularly needs or would have. During their stay at the consulate, Ms. Saga and her children have been provided with a private room. They have received meals from the consulate cafeteria at no charge. In addition, they have ordered food from outside the consulate and consular officials have offered to do grocery shopping for them.

Those additional costs for outside food are being covered by funds supplied by Ms. Saga's family. At no time has she or her children been denied any food for lack of money. I think that is about as much detail as I have on that. I know she has done a number of press interviews on the telephone and may have addressed those circumstances in her own words, too.

QUESTION: Phil, you said her Saudi husband visited at the weekend. Can you be more precise than that? Was it just one meeting they had?

MR. REEKER: I know they had a face-to-face meeting and I know they had telephonic discussions. I don't have any further details than that.

[Ready4Freddy]

Tried to get all the Q&A's re: Sarah copied & pasted here, but I'd re-read the briefing yourselves. ;)

Interesting that the 'you have to pay for your own food' appears to have applied only to that brought in from outside.......

Will check WH & DOJ briefings next!

[Ready4Freddy]

Ping!

[Ready4Freddy]

Maybe I ought to put a list together.....

[SarahW]

MR. REEKER: And under Saudi law, any child who resides in Saudi Arabia with his or her Saudi citizen father requires the father's permission. And so that is an issue in terms of the fact that she, Mrs. Saga, and her husband share legal custody of their two children. Obviously, neither parent wants to be separated from their children. So that is a custody issue that they will have to keep looking at.

So that's how they are going to frame it. A "custody issue" Lets not get involved with a "custody issue"... That's disgusting bullcrap, and they aren't fooling anyone. US law was violated. Saga an american citizen, was kidnapped, our sold as a chattel, and now they (the Saudi's) lay claim to her get!?

The Saudi's don't have clean hands, here, folks.
Neither does the State depatrment.

And, BTW, the "cost of food" thing is doublespeak as well. They *relented* on the cafeteria charges because of the public relations fiasco.

[Ready4Freddy]

Do you think that the Consulate in Jeddah has all the legal docs from Sarah's mother's divorce in-hand, and records of where Sarah's mother reported the abduction to the police, etc.? Are they the ones to make a decision in this case, or should a court?

Dunno about the food situation, neither Roush nor State are exactly disinterested parties here, both have a reason to spin things their way.

[SarahW]

The consulate is aware of Sara Saga's kidnapping.

[Ready4Freddy]

Heard it through the grapevine, or has Sarah's mom done everything she could legally? Where are you getting your info, btw?

[SarahW]

Sarah's mom has no standing to do anything "legally" anymore, except provide proof of her daughters American citizenship.

I certainly don't have any documents for you to peruse, but custody was determined as a part of divorce proceedings, and the mother complied with visitation.

Perhaps you could write to the parties involved and get the papers, if you can not believe their personal accounts.

The Saudi had no legal authority to take Sarah out of the country. IIRC, the Saudi's gave him a passport for his daughter.

The consulate has all the documentation of Sarah's citizenship and they are aware of how she came to be in Saudi Arabia, for how long, who brought her there, etc.

You seem to be under the delusion that the Saudi's sometimes give weight to US law with regard to citizenship or custody of children.

The whole point is that in Saudi Arabia, the mothers have no right's, no voice, no choice. There is no "court" they can appeal to. They ignore any law that gives them a say.

Those children should leave Saudi Arabia with their mother.
An arrangement where custody could be shared is impossible because the Saudi's will not acknowlege one without the (revocable) consent of the sandtrog who fathered them.
And his position is that if he has to share custody, he will kill them, and her too if he can get ahold of her.

Someone actually posted that the children should not be escorted home to the states by a plane, because the Saudi's might shoot it down.

They actually argued that the children should stay in a state where they would prefer to kill the children rather than let a women direct their fate.

I guess that person never read the book of Solomon.

And I actually heard a person put forth the argument, is it REALLY in the children's best interests to remove them from the people and places they have always known, to be immersed in a foreign environment. Don't children need stability?

GOOD GOD! How can anyone say such a thing in earnest. YES it's in anyone's, and especially childrens best interest, to live in freedom in the United states with a mother who loves them than to remain the chattels of a brute who would as soon slit their throat, in a brutally oppressive society and some serious collective mental health problems, and to boot, take the only person who actually does love them and make it so she can never see them again.

[SarahW]

OH, and BTW, the mother is an AMERICAN CITIZEN. HER rights should be protected by the state department. She can not be forced to reliquish her children, who WOULD be US citizens but for the untenable laws of the Saudi's, laws we absolutely should not recognize since they violate every principle of the rights of man which we know are inalienable and belong to all.

[Ready4Freddy]

It's actually our laws that dictate that the kids aren't US citizens.

I pray for a successful resolution to this situation, which includes bringing the children to the US, but don't see any clear way we can do it. I'm just trying to get more information, from different sources.

A snatch by our government may well have consequences that the admin isn't willing to accept at this time.

BTW, haven't seen anything about this in WH briefings yet.

[eyespysomething]

Please do, and add me to any ping list you make for it (if you do)


Do you think I could call or fax her there? I know its a long shot, but I'd like her to know people are praying for her and want her to hold on.

[eyespysomething]

Its not our laws:
from any earlier post I researched:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/934500/posts?page=19#19
This must happen a lot because here is the State Dept page dealing with just child abductions in Saudi Arabia.

http://travel.state.gov/abduction_saudi.html

Saudi Arabia - International Parental Child Abduction

DISCLAIMER: The information in this circular relating to the legal requirements of specific foreign countries is provided for general information only. Questions involving interpretation of specific foreign laws should be addressed to foreign legal counsel.

GENERAL INFORMATION: The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not a party to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction, nor are there any international or bilateral treaties in force between Saudi Arabia and the United States dealing with international parental child abduction. American citizens who travel to Saudi Arabia are subject to the jurisdiction of Saudi courts, as well as to the country's laws and regulations. This holds true for all legal matters including child custody. Parents planning to travel with their children to Saudi Arabia should bear this in mind.

snip >Saudi courts generally do not award custody of children to non-Saudi women.

snip >Even when a mother who is residing in Saudi Arabia is granted physical custody of children, the father maintains legal custody and has the right to determine where the children live and travel. In many cases, the father has been able to assume legal custody of children against the wishes of the mother when she is unable or unwilling to meet certain conditions set by law for her to maintain her custodial rights. For example, if the mother moves to another country, the father is entitled to have custody.

snip >ENFORCEMENT OF FOREIGN JUDGMENTS: Custody orders and judgments of foreign courts are generally not enforceable in Saudi Arabia. For example, an order from a U.S. court granting custody to an American parent will not be honored in Saudi Arabia.

snip >DUAL NATIONALITY: Dual nationality is not recognized under Saudi law. Children of Saudi fathers automatically acquire Saudi citizenship at birth, regardless of where the child was born.

snip >TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS: Exit visas are required to leave Saudi Arabia. The U.S. Embassy or Consulates General cannot obtain exit visas for American citizens. Women must have permission from their husband or father to exit Saudi Arabia. The government of Saudi Arabia has been known to issue international arrest warrants against women who have taken their children from Saudi Arabia without the father's permission.

[Ready4Freddy]

Yes, only our laws dictate whether or not Sarah's kids are US citizens. Their citizenship doesn't really matter in this case, of course.

[Ready4Freddy]

OK, I have you, dennisw, and SarahW on the list.

Anyone else want to be on the Sarah Saga list, please FReepmail me or reply to this.

[Ready4Freddy]

I'm sure she'd aprreciate a fax. Here's the info, from the Saudi Abduction State Dept page:

U.S. Consulate General Jeddah
P.O. Box 149
Jeddah
Phone: [966] (2) 667-0080
Fax: [966] (2) 669-3078 or 669-3098

[Ready4Freddy]

Added you to my Sarah Saga ping list, Piper.

[SarahW]

Our laws decide no such thing, if she brought them here, they would be entitled to stay, and become citizens shortly afterward.

I frankly feel, under the circumstances, a private bill should establish their citizenship immediately.

[JustPiper]

First thanx for the Ping and this info.

None of the women who have been granted such permission have chosen to depart and we keep in regular contact with them. So we are in touch with them on this case.

We know why they have chosen to stay!

[JustPiper]

I have two want one? -g-

[JustPiper]

Thank you , you've been on mine LOL!