‘The Real Deal’ on women in Saudi

MSNBC ^ | 6-19-03 | Joe Scarborough

[JustPiper]

Held in Saudi Arabia against their will

COMMENTARY by Joe Scarborough

June 19 — American women and children continue to be held in Saudi Arabia against their will. The cream puffs at the State Department can call it what they want… but if it were our children trapped in a foreign land, we’d call it kidnapping.

WOMEN HAVE FEW rights in Saudi Arabia. Like the Taliban, our so-called Saudi allies prohibit women from leaving the country without their father and husband’s approval. Thirteen years ago, an American woman actually got kicked out of the U.S. embassy for having the nerve to escape there with her children. It seems the children’s father regularly beat the woman and children. Reports of other American women and children trapped in Saudi Arabia continue surfacing at an alarming rate — despite Prince Bandar’s September promise that no American women and children would be held in his kingdom against their will.

Well, today’s news made the Prince out to be a liar.

Watch Joe Scarborough on “Scarborough Country,” 10 p.m. ET, weeknights on MSNBC TV.

23-year-old Sarah Saga and her two children escaped to the U.S. embassy to get away from another abusive Saudi relationship. Miss Saga’s story is typically tragic: Her Saudi father kidnapped Ms. Saga when she was 6 years old and refused to return her to her American mother. Saga grew up and was forced to marry a Saudi man; she had two children, and then found herself trapped in an abusive relationship. Last month she tried to take her children home to America, but once again, the Saudis refused and offered Ms. Saga a Sophie’s Choice: your freedom or your children. Already facing death threats, Ms. Saga chose to escape Saudi soil and finally come home to American soil.

But the question remains. Why does our administration and Congress continue allowing the Saudis to kidnap our women and imprison our children? If Iran were to do such a thing, we would quickly declare war. It begs the question, is the pursuit of cheap oil really worth selling our nation’s soul? I think not.

And that, my friend, is the ‘Real Deal.’

[JustPiper]

Thank you BC! ;)

[JustPiper]

Look I found a "HouseBoy" in Cancun, but I didn't bring him back to marry me daughter ;) And I really wanted a houseboy!

[BagCamAddict]

Try reading the article before you post next time, eh?

She was kidnapped at age 5-6, forced into an arranged marriage when she was 18, etc...

This isn't "what happens when women marry Arabs" -- it's what happens when women are kidnapped, held captive, and forced into slavery / motherhood against their will.

[JustPiper]

Oh, boy did you hit that one! My brother brought home a wife from Korea ;)

[JustPiper]

Thanx for these links doc!

Many newly married couples move in with the groom's parents, in a sprawling villa that may house several other siblings and their wives and families. There is no such thing as personal privacy and tensions with family members who for one reason or another, may resent the presence of an American wife, often make this living arrangement difficult. In a more affluent family, a couple may inhabit one of several homes in a small family compound. Some Saudis live separately in villas or apartments. While that may resolve the issue of privacy, many American wives find themselves completely isolated, surrounded by neighbors who only speak Arabic, and with no access to public or private transportation.

[JustPiper]

I will make sure to once again read the replies to JH's thread and please ping me if there are anymore similiar posts as this you may see, thanx!

[JustPiper]

Bump! What hurts is knowing these women 'go' to our Embassies and have insult added to their personal injuries!

[Proud2BeFree]

I think a lot of us have State Department nightmare stories.

Back in the early 80's, I had more of a sense for adventure than I did common sense and I married a man from Egypt, a Moslem, and went to live in Egypt. 8 years later, after many years of wanting a child, we were approved to "adopt" a child through the Egyptian government. I use the term "adopt" loosely becuase i have since found out there is no such thing as true adoption. More about that later.

The marriage was quickly unraveling and an infant wasn't helping, so my survival instincts kicked into gear and I decided to head back to the US. I realized real fast I could leave any time I wanted to but couldn't take the child without his permission. He would not give permission unless he came along so we came back for a visit. He decided when we got here to get a job. He got one, and a year later decided he needed a work permit or his green card. (OK yeah I should have seen it coming but I was young and naive.) Unfortunately for him he got the green card/work permit and job BACKWARDS and the US government wasn't too happy about it.

He decided to take it out on me and managed to get one beating in. I said young and naive. NOT stupid. I calmed him down, convinced him I was ok, and got him to go to work. As soon as he was at work, I was out of there with my child. I got a divorce, restraining order, and sole custody.

Not too long after that he left for Egypt under threat of deportation. God bless the US Embassy in Cairo, they have refused him a visa for the 12 or so years since so he can't get into the US.

Unfortunately before he left he took the child's Egyptian passport, and WITHDREW her application for permanent residency, without telling me.

Fast forward - child is 15 and wants her drivers license. SO I go to get a replacement Social Security Card and they won't give it to me. I need proof of her legal residency. No problem - I contact INS and ask for proof of her legal residency. According to my lawyer that and the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 was all we needed.

Big Ooops. I discovered he withdrew the application for residency. Child was an illegal alien and has been since 1990 when the app was withdrawn. Why wasn't I notified? Well they sent a letter confirming to Ex, at the address he gave them. Needless to say I never saw it.

But anyway fast forward to now. I get copies of the "adoption" documents in the original Arabic (fortunately his old attorney had them and I had to have the supeonaed but we got them). I get them translated and then I discover it isn't an adoption agree at all. It's called "Contract for Guardianship of a Child in a Foster Home". I discover I'm not a party to this adoption at all - not sure why my they needed my fingerprint and my signature but I am clearly not a party.

So no automatic citizenship under the 2000 Child Citizenship Act.

It's back to the drawing board. An INS rep tells me to get her passport and then contact them back. I contact the Egyptian Embassy. Nope - no passport without the written permission of my Ex. He won't take phone calls from me, ignores emails, and basically thinks this entire situation is funny. He totally refused the embassy's courtesy request for permission. I should mention he's had no contact with the child at all since she was a toddler and has not paid a dime of child support. (But he has been collecting money from the Egyptian government the whole time for her foster care.)

Back to INS. They say get a copy of her I-94. I send in my $185 and get the I-94. So I get the I-94 and go back to INS with the I-94, the translated documents, the original documents, and try again.

Still no luck - technically the Egyptian government never released their "parental rights". I have no legal rights to this child except sole custody.

The child is in high school. She can't get a job, can't get a drivers license, and isn't eligible for any financial aid for college. She's an illegal alien. No passport of any kind. It may or may not even be legal for her to be attending public school. (We will ignore the fact that my husband and I work and pay taxes like everyone else so it's not a case of her sponging off the American taxpayer for school. )

Now before you jump, I was an idiot. I shouldn't have married the guy in the first place but I was young, and it seemed right at the time. Should I have "adopted" the child? Yes. Where I made my mistake was trusting my Ex - I should have had competent legal counsel advising ME - especially dealing with contracts in a second language - but when you're married that's an easy mistake to make.

I have no clue how to resolve this. The child has been with me since infancy. She has been in the US since she was 6 months old. She speaks no Arabic, and to add icing to the cake this year she chose to be baptized into the church. There is no way this child can go live in Egypt.

All the State Department Children Affairs tells me is I have to get this resolved before she turns 16 or she will not be able to stay. INS says she's an undocumented alien in this country. But she's a child.

[mickie]

Her family here in the States wired her money.......but some delay in transferring the money was a problem.

Lets pray for her safe return with her children.

[Steve Eisenberg]

I have no clue how to resolve this. The child has been with me since infancy. She has been in the US since she was 6 months old. She speaks no Arabic, and to add icing to the cake this year she chose to be baptized into the church. There is no way this child can go live in Egypt.

Another well-told story of lack of State Department common sense. Obviously we can't, from any humanitarian standpoint, send people back to a country alien to them and in which they would have no supportive family. Sending Proud2BeFree's girl back to Egypt, where she would face persecution as a Christian without knowing the language, and without family, or friends, would be grossest injustice.

[Steve Eisenberg]

I should mention he's [Egyptian foster father] had no contact with the child at all since she was a toddler and has not paid a dime of child support. . . . The child has been with me since infancy. She has been in the US since she was 6 months old. She speaks no Arabic, and to add icing to the cake this year she chose to be baptized into the church. There is no way this child can go live in Egypt.

All the State Department Children Affairs tells me is I have to get this resolved before she turns 16 [now 15] or she will not be able to stay. INS says she's an undocumented alien in this country.

This seems to me a HIGHLY legitimate case for a private citizenship bill. Does anyone around here know about that stuff?

[Proud2BeFree]

I'm sorry for my original post sounding so impersonal. I had to rewrite this message 5 or 6 times because I didn't want to be flamed for being too emotional. I'm a tech writer so I trying to take a "just the facts" approach. I toned it down deliberately so as not to sound as emotional as I was feeling.

By the way, if I may brag for a moment, she is straight A honors student and an athlete - not to mention a wonderful, warm, and caring young lady. I am truly fortunate to have her as my child :)

We're going to figure out a solution for my daughter - going back is not an option for her. She would be forced to convert to Islam if the government of Egypt or my Ex got involved. Unfortunately without a passport of any kind, we just keep running into loose ends.

There must be some reasonable way for a mom to not have her daughter ripped from her after so many years.

The private citizenship angle sounds interesting - we'll research that. Any ideas are truly appreciated by both myself and my daughter.

[SarahW]

G.W. is supposed to be protecting Americans, but if they're in Saudi, forget it. I hold this against him.

So do I. He won't be forgiven if he lets this go the way the Saudi's want.

[ctonious]

Between the ridiculous subjugation of women in Saudi Arabia - and that of men in the US concerning these very same issues - there's gotta be some in between - maybe in Atlantis.

[SarahW]

Do we need an act of congress to ensure that the horror of sending a young Christian maiden to a completely foreign land that hates Christians and hates maidens does not occur?

[SarahW]

I've heard of it, it seems the only solution. I hope someone with expertise chimes in.

[FITZ]

I am still trying to understand why this is not a common custody dispute.

Should the US government get tangled up in child custody disputes? It has a time or two --- when the US senator flew to Jonestown, it was about a child custody dispute and the kool-aid drinkers were living in a foreign country, the government got involved in Waco because of child custody disputes and that ended in disaster and then Janet Reno got involved in the Elian child custody dispute. How many Arab families should we kill on Arab land because they and we don't agree on who should raise the children?

[japaneseghost]

dark_lord, you speak the TRUTH - lay low in the USA, that's the only way to live FREE - I have a question for this mother:

WHAT ABOUT FOREIGN CHILDREN ACCIDENTALLY BORN AND STOLEN FROM HOSPITALS IN THIS COUNTRY (the USA)?

Why does the FBI refuse to investigate? Got any idea of what IS a capital crime? Like across state lines?

You think YOUR civil rights were violated?

LIKE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE?

LOOK AT MY FREEP NAME.

[hocndoc]

I have e mailed the State Dept, offering to pay for food for her and her children.

Here's where to contact the Secretary of State - a direct link to his on-line message site:
http://contact-us.state.gov/ask_form_cat/ask_form_secretary.html

Here's the link to the FR post with the above information
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/932375/posts?page=6#6

[SendShaqtoIraq]

Except that this one in the embassy right now did not choose to be in SA. She was taken there at age 6 by her Saudi father and then never allowed to leave. Married off to another Saudi, again by the work of her father.