‘The Real Deal’ on women in Saudi

MSNBC ^ | 6-19-03 | Joe Scarborough

[JustPiper]

Held in Saudi Arabia against their will

COMMENTARY by Joe Scarborough

June 19 — American women and children continue to be held in Saudi Arabia against their will. The cream puffs at the State Department can call it what they want… but if it were our children trapped in a foreign land, we’d call it kidnapping.

WOMEN HAVE FEW rights in Saudi Arabia. Like the Taliban, our so-called Saudi allies prohibit women from leaving the country without their father and husband’s approval. Thirteen years ago, an American woman actually got kicked out of the U.S. embassy for having the nerve to escape there with her children. It seems the children’s father regularly beat the woman and children. Reports of other American women and children trapped in Saudi Arabia continue surfacing at an alarming rate — despite Prince Bandar’s September promise that no American women and children would be held in his kingdom against their will.

Well, today’s news made the Prince out to be a liar.

Watch Joe Scarborough on “Scarborough Country,” 10 p.m. ET, weeknights on MSNBC TV.

23-year-old Sarah Saga and her two children escaped to the U.S. embassy to get away from another abusive Saudi relationship. Miss Saga’s story is typically tragic: Her Saudi father kidnapped Ms. Saga when she was 6 years old and refused to return her to her American mother. Saga grew up and was forced to marry a Saudi man; she had two children, and then found herself trapped in an abusive relationship. Last month she tried to take her children home to America, but once again, the Saudis refused and offered Ms. Saga a Sophie’s Choice: your freedom or your children. Already facing death threats, Ms. Saga chose to escape Saudi soil and finally come home to American soil.

But the question remains. Why does our administration and Congress continue allowing the Saudis to kidnap our women and imprison our children? If Iran were to do such a thing, we would quickly declare war. It begs the question, is the pursuit of cheap oil really worth selling our nation’s soul? I think not.

And that, my friend, is the ‘Real Deal.’

[JustPiper]

I want them flown to the US on the same private jet the Saudis used to fly Bin Ladin's family out of the US after 9/11. Today.

Bump and Amen to that. This would be good email for the President!

[JustPiper]

Thats exactly what Joe said yesterday, all for oil ;(

[JustPiper]

I am still trying to understand why this is not a common custody dispute.

Because in Saudi a woman has no custody rights and the US is backing them up and not interfering with 'their' laws!

[JustPiper]

My point right now is yes, let's do the general outrage but I am concerned immediately with our fellow Freeper Rutabega
and trying to help her.

[Ready4Freddy]

The children have never been in the US. No US (State) family court has jurisdiction.

[SevenDaysInMay]

Our State Dept. is infected.

Big post-retirement "con$ulting" gigs are possible for complying with Saudi political cover. This has been reported many times. Even before retirement, "honoraria" has been paid.

The World Socialism Movement has 5th columnists in State's high to low places undermining our rule of law and sense of justice, killing the hopes of American citizen children and their American citizen mothers unwise to have fallen for Arab misogynists.

[Ready4Freddy]

There is some hope, as I mentioned on another thread:

"She, and her children, are in the U.S. In case you've forgotten, an American embassy is on American soil."

Now all Sarah needs to do is to stay in the Embassy for another ~2 years and she can apply for a certificate of citizenship (naturalization) for her kids. She's already got ~5 of the required total of 5 (since the kids were born after 11/13/86), but 2 of those years must be after the age of 14.

[The Scorpion King]

That's what happens to women that marry Arabs! Arab women seem to crave that kind of treatment for some unknown reason. It should serve as a lesson to all American women.

[AlexW]

All that I have seen here is based on emotion, not logic or law. I really hate to keep being the antagonist here, but really.....

"We do not know the people we marry. Longtime loves turn into strangers. And she married a Swede Alex, not a 'raghead'"....

So, he is NOT Saudi? Is he a Saudi citizen? This is strange.
Why would you get married to someone that you do not know?... Passion?
Is this an excuse for subverting law?

"Because in Saudi a woman has no custody rights and the US is backing them up and not interfering with 'their' laws!"

Should we interfere with Saudi Law? Should Saudis be allowed to interfere with US law?

I have yet to get a reply to my basic questions..
Was this woman forced to marry this "Swede" or whatever he is.
Are the children a result of rape?
Is she not allowed to leave Saudi Arabia?

What if a Saudi woman comes to the US and gets married to a US male. ...They split and she wants to run back to Saudi Arabia with two kids that they had in the USA.
What would US law say about that?

I am still looking for some rational replies that
are with fact, and not emotion.

BTW, I am all for the girl returning to the US with the kids, but I do not see this as an international incident.

I regard Freepers as too intelligent to let emotion get in the way of logic.

[BagCamAddict]

It doesn't appear that anyone has posted the answers to your questions directly, so...

1. This woman was kidnapped from the US when she was 5-6 years old by her Saudi father. She has an American mother and she was born in America so she is an American citizen).

2. Once she was in Saudi Arabia, she was held in a locked room for TWO YEARS, among other things.

3. When she was 18, she was married off, in an arranged marriage, to a Saudi man.

4. She was forced to bear his children.

5. Both her father and her husband were abusive.

6. She sought refuge for herself and her children at the American Embassy, which is American soil.

That covers the nuts and bolts of the background. Now you can join the discussion... but next time, please read the article before posting, so that 15 people don't have to type out the info that you could have read yourself. (You may have been out of the country for 6 weeks, but the article with most of this info is at the top of this thread, right?) :-)

[AlexW]

"It doesn't appear that anyone has posted the answers to your questions directly, so... "

Thank you...Early this morning I asked for LINKS to the facts.
I received NONE..All I got was emotional ranting.

[BagCamAddict]

I have yet to see a "mail order bride" situation in America that wasn't because the American male wanted a Maid, Mother, Nanny, Nurse, Whore, Slave, etc. and/or because American women weren't subservient enough (aka couldn't be made to be his slave).

[BagCamAddict]

Thank you...Early this morning I asked for LINKS to the facts. I received NONE..All I got was emotional ranting.

You're welcome. And I understand that... I read the whole thread before responding to your post. My point was that most of the facts were readily available at the top of the thread, in the article itself, if you had taken the time to read it. In addition, post #5 had a link to a more detailed article on the situation.

[A_perfect_lady]

Heh. From what I hear, men who pick up Asian women thinking they'll get a subservient little slave girl often get a nasty shock once she's got the ring on her finger.

[A_perfect_lady]

The Swede story was a separate story, a few posts down, maybe #4 or so, a poster was telling HER story, which was kind of similar to the Saudi story. She was just making a point about how awful the State Department is.

[hocndoc]

This is the page on marriage to Saudi Arabians, written by the State Department.
http://travel.state.gov/marriagetosaudis.html

which I looked up after reading this article on FR, yesterday
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/932375/posts

I hope that Ms. Saga will be an exception to the history of women in SA up to this date.

I understand the difficulties must be great, but why should the US honor the SA's laws that Ms. Saga (born in the US) and her children are not US citizens? This is a crisis, since by our laws, they are. Who is safe, if US citizens may be accosted in our own consulates?

[JustPiper]

I could never, but only because I have always had this inate fear of Arabs, don't know why. But I also will not be quick to condemn an American woman because she fell in love.

[hocndoc]

Let me say that I believe you. Abuse is abuse. You were and are abused.

At least within our borders, the State Department should be for Americans first.

[BagCamAddict]

Exactly. And the men are dang p*ss*d about it too. Serves 'em right for trying to "marry" a maid/slave rather than just hiring one! LOL

[JustPiper]

See this post is confusing yes, Sara did marry a Saudi but our Freeper married a Swede.

I'm not saying disrupt a 'good' law in Saudi, but this law is assinine! And considering they promised to stop doing this and are once again lying to us and have stretched our relations to beyond the limits, I say screw them!

If they were law-abiding, trustworthy and cared about human rights, only then could I respect their laws. But they are barbaric!!!

She is allowed to leave Saudi but without her children. Are you saying thats the punishment she deserves for marrying a Saudi?

Look the US doesn't give a hoot about anyone marrying from another country or if they are being mistreated. Congress can fight,we can fight and this is an old story! This happened to many of our GI's in VietNam who fathered children. Did the government care, no!

Yes, many of us Freepers are emotional and at times are clouded with illogical rationalizations, but that is a HUGE difference from the passion we carry as Freepers about injustices. This is an INjustice and travesty! This has to do with our government's failure not a choice of a husband.