[Torie]

I have made my own comments on these matters over the years. I appreciate the civil treatment by and large that I have received at FR over the years, on these and other matters, where I have "strayed" in my considered judgment as to the public policy I favor, and my analysis as to what the end game is likely to be.

Here is Andrew Sullivan's comment:

He [Goldberg] calls for magnanimity in victory from the gay side. I agree. But victory still isn't here in the sense of formal legal equality. It's approaching, I think. And certainly the generational trends suggest that the future belongs to gay integration. But until marriage rights are achieved, and military service is allowed, full citizenship will still be elusive for gay Americans. But here's a promise: once that equality is achieved, I'll shut up. No, I won't go silent on my sexual orientation when it seems appropriate. But I can't wait to take yes for an answer, to make sexual orientation a non-issue, to move on to other issues, and get on with our lives. I want to shut the gay civil rights movement down. Just not before equality. But the second afterwards. Deal?

[sit-rep]

Thumbs down to the queers.

[1stFreedom]

BOYCOTT TV!

It doesn't add much to your life, and really takes away from it (outside of educational channels).

Get your news from the internet and the entertainment from friends and family.

I gave it up almost 4 years ago and only turn it on for the occassional newsworthy story.

GIVE IT UP!

[bribriagain]

"But the second afterwards. Deal?"

No Deal. No special recognition for homosexuals. Period. And as long as DeLay, Bush, and Frist hold the cards, queers are toast.

[VOA]

Time to face facts: Gays gain victory

Amen to that.
Now that Federal court nominees can be quizzed by Democratic Senators about their
dirty little secrets...
like deciding to go to Disney World at a time other than "Gay Days".
So that he would be spared questions from his four- and six-year old about
the crowd at Disney World.

Nice to see that "Big Brother" (=The Liberals of The Democratic Party) are
ready to make heterosexuality into a thought crime.

Somewhere George Orwell is smiling. At least an ironic smile.

[RonHolzwarth]

"while he remained as chaste as Greg Brady on "The Brady Bunch." "

Geez,,, to bad Mr. Brady wasn't as chaste, then he wouldn't have died of AIDS, huh?

"both camps are in denial about how far gays have come."

Really? Just how far did they squirt, anyway?

heheheheeee

[conservativecorner]

The genuine meaning of marriage is lost

http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/story.html?id=2CA92979-BDB6-4D83-8170-BFCD51C4E26A

[Tahoe3002]

I refuse to call homosexuals "gays or lesbians."

I dealt with homosexual women in the USMC. When possible, we court martialed and and dishonorably discharged them. Oh, not for "consenting" activities; but for homosexual rape. It happened and it happened often.

[eddie willers]

I want to shut the gay civil rights movement down. Just not before equality. But the second afterwards. Deal?

Well....at least that's more than Jesse Jackson ever promised.
(And would never do)

[Imagine]

Homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior and a mental illness.

Homosexuals: 1) subject their body parts to uses nature did not intend, such activities often presenting immediate risk to the participants; 2) are prone to greater suicide, depression and other mental disorders and deficiencies than the heterosexual population at large; 3) are prone to far greater sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS, than the (normal) heterosexual population; 4) molest young people (pedophilia) at a far greater rate than heterosexuals; 5) engage in degrading sexual promiscuity, oftentimes engaging in risky sex with many partners during the same event; 6) are engaged in aggressive and widespread efforts to indoctrinate our children by introducing the homosexual lifestyle using public schools as the primary indoctrination “vehicle” and likewise, through the movie/music/TV industry, with the dual goals of gaining school-age acceptance of homosexuality and encouraging sexual activity among children, especially same-sex experimentation; 7) view most everything through a mindset heavily biased in favor of the homosexual lifestyle and culture, which renders them mostly useless when asked to opine on matters that normal heterosexuals better resolve.

The mental deficiencies described herein applying to homosexuals shall not be confused with the deficiencies associated with the left wing democrat/socialist/Marxist/ feminist/environmentalists, etc., mind, which have their own distinct set of mental disorders.

This doesn't even touch on what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.

[CatoRenasci]

Well, I must say I never thought the world would come to this. Regardless of the fact that I strenuously oppose the state persecuting homosexuals, I am not personally willing to go beyond toleration. No one can make me accept or approve of homosexuality, and I doubt that I shall ever accept it as normal or approve of it as an valid alternative. But, now, I'm told I have to put up with it. Well, being told to live with it inspires the contrarian in me to say, Hell No. I won't. In fact, I am now about a hundred times more likely to support candidates who WOULD persecute homosexuals than I would have been had homsexuals been content to go about their business quietly buggering each other, leaving children and the boy scouts alone, and otherwise acting like decent people.

So, enjoy your "victory" and come out of the closet, where we can all identify you. Eventually, distate for homosexuality will manifest itself politically in the same way the overreaching of liberals led to the conservative backlash. And I think the marriage issue may well be the one to put it over the top.

Marriage is a mixed institution, it has both a civil and religious character. There is an argument that homosexuals ought to be able to set up the same sort of domestic partnership arrangements that the state sanctions in marriage, but there is simply NO argument that any form of Christianity, or Judism or any of the classical Greek, Roman or Egyptian pagan religions ever sanctioned anything like homosexual 'marriage' in the religious sense. It really does go against the natural inclinations of humanity, and it just doesn't sit comfortably.

[Snuffington]

Look, the greatest problem for conservatives arguing against homosexuals is that they've largely abandoned any sense of morality within heterosexual relations. Drawing a line between heterosexual bacchanalia and homosexual bacchanalia seems a bit arbitrary.

Either argue the real issue, or retreat. And if you retreat, you'd best quit trying to frame sexuality in any sort of moral context whatsoever (hear that Andrew Sullivan?).

[yankeedame]

The challenge for social conservatives, it seems to me, is to make the best of what they consider a bad situation. But that would require making some painful capitulations -intellectual, moral, philosophical and financial...

As best I can remember Heinelein/Lazarus Long said something like: "Acceptance means rolling with the punches. It does not mean groveling before the guards."

[Consort]

Gays, Democrats, Muslims, the French, criminals, accordion players, perverts, deviates, harmonica players, dopers, serial killers, etc all come from...............heterosexuals.

[ckilmer]

I want to shut the gay civil rights movement down. Just not before equality. But the second afterwards. Deal?

/////////////////
this is not the way it works in real life.

you forget the bitch. whether a real woman or some guy you've fooled. there is a status to sex. homosexuals will work to raise the status of homosexual sex until it is above sex with women. women are stupid who do not think that homosexuals are their mortal enemies.

and there is another level. modern biotechnology promises homosexuals that they can reproduce without the opposite sex.

this will lead to the crack up of the species if they follow through with this.

finally we have examples of riverine civilizations in central america and the middle east that endured a millenium or more of male temple prostitution and human sacrifice. something went out of the people. the scars remain.

about 15 years ago a book called the Conquest of New Spain by Bernal Diaz was finally translated from the original spanish to english. Bernal Diaz was Hernando Cortez's lieutenant during the conquest of the Aztecs. Diaz book told about the human sacrifices...something that made it into grade school books. what the book also mentioned was something that never made it into the regular history books. The aztec priests would "act up" right in front cortez and his men.

cortez's reaction was just the same as that of Moses.

you do not serve anyone but satan.

but abortion in time will be abolished and the blood of innocents will no longer feed your abominations

[billbears]

In short, it's a global trend and, like it or not, the traditionalists have lost. This isn't a value judgment, it's simply dispassionate analysis. Many conservatives refuse to accept this fact. But refusing to acknowledge a fact doesn't make it any less real.

The challenge for social conservatives, it seems to me, is to make the best of what they consider a bad situation. But that would require making some painful capitulations -intellectual, moral, philosophical and financial. It would also require gay activists to understand that they've won and that the best course of action for them would be magnanimity in victory. Unfortunately, this is all unlikely since both camps are in denial about how far gays have come.

That's the 'conservative' spirit, Jonah. Admit defeat and compromise!! Got to love the NRO. Love it for what, I have no idea.... How far will the conservative party be allowed to fall before it is taken back by social and fiscal conservatives?

[lilylangtree]

Well, I don't think they've won. All the shows and movies mentioned I've never seen and don't plan to. However, the programs and movies that I've seen that had a queer it was portrayed as a "harmless" pervert courtesy of H'weirdo typecasting. However, those "harmless" perverts have shown in real life that they can be every bit as malicious, cruel and sadistic.

[Carry_Okie]

I was sodomized as a four year old. The cost was incalculable. The events associated with that event ruined my family and the consequences have never abated to this day. Legitimizing homosexual behavior, will guarantee more of the same for more children and has been intended as such long before the 1950s when the media celebrated the falsified data of a homosexual, sado-masochist pedophile as "normal," any argument you might make notwithstanding.

Communism's target of opportunity has always been the nuclear family and legitimizing homosexuality and perversion has been a goal toward that end since the 1920s. Best you read the works of Antonio Gramsci.

This isn't a matter of what consenting adults do in a bedroom. It's about adoption and childrearing.

No deal.

[SuziQ]

Frankly, I think that the more people see shows like Will and Grace, and the other shows purporting to show homosexuals in their 'freed' state, the more they will be personally opposed to such a lifestyle. They may not say so publicly for fear of the dreaded homophobic label, but I believe they'll feel that way nonetheless.

Those shows depict homosexuality the same way it treats uncommitted heterosexuality. It shows an aimless, selfish lifestyle that seeks pleasure for pleasure's sake, not to create a lasting union; 'homosexual marriage' proponents notwithstanding.

For an interesting take on homosexual marriage, read Answering Advocates of Gay Marriage. It is a paper presented at Emory University, and it presents some very interesting points regarding this issue. Warning: It is LONG, but very good reading.

[jwalsh07]

How does Andrew feel about polygamy, bigamy or the platonic marriage of mother and sister, daughter and brother, three friends or an entire commune?

Jonah Goldberg may have quit the fight but I can tell you that out here in the woods of Ct, there is minimal support for homosexual "marriage".

If states or SCOTUS sanction homosexual "marriage" the equal protection clause would open that door up for any couple or group who care to follow.

You're my best friend here and I know we disagree but I'll be battling to the bitter end, one way or the other.

[Im Your Huckleberry]

First, I don't agree with the premise of this article at all, they certainly have not "won" - they've won a victory in a completely ultra-leftist, socialist state. That's hardly saying anything.

All that being said, we must continue to fight against their agenda here, and we must never give in or conceed one inch of the moral high ground to these filthy deviant, degenerates. Ever.

For Goldberg to publish this is obscene. Not only is it untrue, it is also ammunition for them. Another blunder from Goldberg and the Neo-cons.

And let me tell you, if they do win, here, then NAMBLA will be the next thing they try to legitamize, and "Man boy love" and pedophilia will be the next taboo the deviants try to overcome. They're already starting (follow the bouncing ball; first the psychiatric societies remove "homosexuality" from the list of mental disorders, in the 1970's and now look where we're at. The APA is now discussing removing pedophilia from the list of mental disorders...this is all part of a well orchestrated, and timed, plan...and when they do remove it from the list of mental disorders (this will absolutely happen), you will see an all out push over the next decade to "understand" (at first) and then "legitamize" pedophilia...and it will be the same for each and every other sexual deviancy; bestiality, necrophilia...you name it, they will push to legitamize it).

Thirty years ago if you told someone that homosexuality would be legitamized and gays would be married, etc, you would have been told you were crazy, and would have been laughed out of the discussion. So it goes with the pedophilia taboo. Sure, right now the thought of pedophilia or other taboos being "legitamized" sounds equally crazy. Watch. Wait. And mark my words.

If we ever conceed the battle to the queer lobby, then it's going to get so bad you won't believe it; pedophilia, bestiality...it'll be a full court press to overcome every other sexual taboo (which has been their goal from the beginning, actually) in society. You won't be able to let your children out the door.