Posted on 06/19/2003 11:45:45 PM PDT by JohnHuang2
On the eve of her 24th birthday, Sarah Saga, the courageous, young woman who has sought sanctuary inside the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia for the past five days, was brought face-to-face with members of the Saudi government inside her living quarters. She was not given the choice of refusing these uninvited guests, but told by U.S. consular officers that she must comply with Saudi demands for a meeting.
As Sarah and her two young children huddled in a corner of the room, three Saudi men from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs approached her. She had grown up in a household with an abusive Saudi father who had beaten her on a regular basis, threatened her with a knife, and locked her up in a room for two years as revealed to me in an audiotaped interview a few weeks ago. Now, her worst nightmare was coming true – Saudi men again intimating her and scaring her right inside the U.S. Consulate and in her own bedroom.
One of them said, "Let us tell you what your problem is – but your option is only one." The nervous, frightened woman signed the document placed before her and then the men left. The arrangements had been made. Sarah was to be placed on a commercial airliner at 2 a.m. this morning and her children were to be given to relatives. The Saudis wanted to end this "hostage situation" and get back to their PR campaign in the U.S.
But Sarah has decided that she won't go. "I will never leave my children here to suffer the same horrible life that I had to endure," she tells a Fox News audience. She has locked herself inside her room and keeps her little ones close by.
A couple of days ago, Sarah told her mom that she had a piece of chocolate cake at the consulate cafeteria. "I told Sarah we'll have a big chocolate cake for her birthday when she comes home. That was her favorite."
Birthdays aren't celebrated in Saudi Arabia. They consider it a Western holiday. When I met my daughters in a hotel room in Riyadh eight years ago, Aisha didn't even know her correct age. I brought Alia a "Sweet Sixteen" birthday card as a present, but she was perplexed by it all.
This will be the first birthday in eighteen years that Sarah Saga will celebrate. Although she may be alone in a room in the U.S. Consulate with danger all around her, she can have her chocolate cake with her kids and we can each light one candle for Sarah and pray for her safe return.
Fox News has posted addresses of U.S. officials that can be contacted to express support for Saga in her quest for freedom for both herself and her children.
Here's what State says about Marriage to Saudi Nationals
Among other things, it says "If a Saudi husband attempts to prevent his wife from leaving, the Embassy can call upon Saudi authorities to facilitate the American's departure. The Embassy cannot force a Saudi husband to relinquish the children."
Of course there's a dispute over that! You are an American citizen if you are born on American soil, or if you are born to at least one American parent. Sarah never renounced U.S. citizenship, so she is an American citizen, and therefore so are her children.
That one was easy.
Drew Garrett
Where in Heaven's name are you getting this idea? The children of an American citizen are also American citizens. The girls are American. Period.
Drew Garrett
This statement of yours is what i was referring to....
No offense but that is where you make your mistake.
Lately we've seen some situations with those who choose dual citizenship with Mexico ---they are Mexican citizens, they travel to Mexico and expect protection from our government if they get in trouble. One recently murdered her husband in Mexico but thinks her US citizenship should save her from prosecution in Mexico for murder she committed in Mexico ---she's a citizen of both countries.
Hmmm, I'd posted earlier that the children were, of course, citizens. You've pointed out, since then (that'll teach me yet again to read a full thread before commenting...) that this is not always the case. So be it.
There is, however, certainly an argument to be made each way. Since there is no court that will decide this matter, it comes down to a matter of politics, much more than law. So there are really, as I see it, two questions. First, can we do anything to get the girls out, and secondly, is it worth doing anything?
On the first count, we can get them out, easily enough. Fly a chopper to the embassy, put the family on it, fly them out. The Saudis are very unlikely to take unfriendly action in that case. Or, if we want to be even more confrontational, have the Marines provide an escort to a waiting plane. Provide a public warning that we will consider an assault on the family or their escort an assault on the United States, and be prepared to respond if necessary. So, yes, we can get them out. There's not even really a question about that.
Now, is it worth it? Domestically, I think the answer is a certainty - yes. The U.S. people are sick to death of the Saudis, and strong action against them, like this, would win President Bush considerable standing in the U.S. On the foreign side, we might not come out as well. We'd have the usual roster of complaints, but since we've already got a fairly poor standing, we might even see some actual trade movement against us. Some countries may even go so far as to revoke their treaties regarding the return of children - although since almost none of them actually enforce those treaties anyway, that's small loss. So overall, I'd still call it a win.
Drew Garrett
She did. She, and her children, are in the U.S. In case you've forgotten, an American embassy is on American soil.
Drew Garrett
Look FITZ, with all due respect, if you are asking this question, this deep into this thread, after all of your previous posts spouting your opinion and various "facts" about what is and should be done in this and all other cases of American women marrying foreigners... You are wasting everyone's time who is trying to discuss this particular story rationally.
You don't have all the facts in this case, let alone some of the most important ones. You obviously didn't read this news article or any of the articles prior to it. You obviously didn't read the thread, which answers this exact question and many others. Yet you have fixed opinions about how American women should be left to rot in other countries due to their own ignorance.
I was going to respond to SEVERAL of your previous posts to try to impart some reason in your way of thinking. But I read the entire thread before doing so, and after reading this post of yours, it is abundantly clear that your typing fingers got ahead of your brain. PLEASE, do everyone a favor, and read the article AND the thread, before posting generalized or irrelevant comments.
This thread is about ONE AMERICAN CITIZEN who was KIDNAPPED to Saudi Arabia, forced to marry a Saudi, forced to bear children to a Saudi, and her two children, who have dual citizenship. It is not about Mexican citizens, Iranians, Greeks, or anyone else. None of those cases are applicable to this case. And it is callous to say that Sara should be ignored because Sara's mother married a Saudi and Sara's mother should have known better. For one thing, Sara shouldn't have to pay for her mother's mistake. You can post generalities all you want, but they are not relevant to this thread.
Now let me address your specific post to me, in which you stated:
what can our government do, what SHOULD it do when women insist on marrying someone,
Sara didn't INSIST on marrying anyone. Sara was kidnapped from the US at the age of 5 or 6, and kept locked in a room in Saudi Arabia for 2 years... at the age of 18, she was forced into an arranged marriage to a Saudi.
knowing full well ahead of time that if the marriage doesn't work there will be custody issues.
Irrelevant in this case. BUT, what are you saying, that women should go into all marriages planning for their failure? What about "until death do us part, for better or for worse"?? Furthermore, what makes you think they know "full well ahead of time" that there will be custody issues? People CHANGE. Or are you too ignorant to realize that??
These foolish women give up their own religion,
Again with the generalizations - NOT TRUE OR RELEVANT HERE.
they agree to raise Islamic children,
NOT TRUE OR RELEVANT HERE.
they know that the Middle Easterners view women as property?
NOT TRUE OR RELEVANT HERE. But hello FITZ, obviously they don't intentionally marry into slavery! CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE MARRIAGE CHANGE over time, and they find themselves in a slavery/hostage situation and they need to find a way to get out of it. And because they are American citizens, we should be able to help them get out of it.
Can our government force these morons not to marry?
NOT TRUE OR RELEVANT HERE. But you are completely IGNORANT to call them morons. You claim that "they" (the women) know that Middle Easterners view women as property... yet YOU don't know that when an American woman falls in love with a Middle Easterner, it is generally when he is HERE, and he has adopted American ways and customs. The woman falls in love with someone based on who he is HERE. How is she to know that he will become Mr. Hyde after they are married - whether or not they stay in America??
But it's supposed to intervene when the marriage doesn't work and the woman wants saving?
YES, when an AMERICAN CITIZEN is being held against her will in a foreign country, she is being held CAPTIVE, and YES, the American Government should try to get her out!!
Why is this so hard for YOU to comprehend? Why? Because it is regarding a WOMAN, that is why. If these roles were reversed - if there was a country where Women held the kind of power that Men do in Saudi Arabia, and if an American MAN was being held against his will, you would undoubtedly be singing a different tune.
As I said on an earlier thread, our Military personnel signed up to go to war in Iraq. A few of them were captured and became POWs. Did you say our Govt shouldn't do anything to get them out because they knew what they signed up for when they joined the military? Did you say it doesn't matter what OUR laws are, they are in a war, and they are subject to the laws of the Iraqi captors, so we should let them rot because they were morons for joining the military in the first place?
Please explain to me how it is any different if an American Woman marries a foreigner HERE IN AMERICA, UNDER AMERICAN LAWS and AMERICAN CUSTOMS, and then later finds her children being kidnapped, and/or herself being held captive in a foreign land against her will?
In the case of the woman of the Sally Fields movie "Not Without My Daughter", which is a TRUE STORY, they had lived here in the US for TWELVE YEARS and had a daughter HERE, and he was a respected Doctor HERE before he took his family home on the guise of it being a visit to family. After they were in his country, he took their passports and their money and their clothes, and he had them watched and followed 24/7 so they could not escape. But in your view, that woman was a MORON for marrying him in the first place, so she deserved everything she got, and the Govt shouldn't have done a darn thing to help her, right?
Now all Sarah needs to do is to stay in the Embassy for another ~2 years and she can apply for a certificate of citizenship (naturalization) for her kids. She's already got ~5 of the required total of 5 (since the kids were born after 11/13/86), but 2 of those years must be after the age of 14.
Or until W's State Dept gives her & the kids the boot.
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