Posted on 06/19/2003 11:11:18 AM PDT by bedolido
With the California ballot initiative to remove Governor Gray-Out Davis in a recall election looking likely to succeed, two Democrats did an LBJ and said, "We won't run." I rolled you audio of The Meathead, Rob Reiner, saying this was "misguided" and "a bad way to conduct democracy." This initiative is not only democratic, it's 100% pure democracy. You get 900,000 signatures (probably 1.3 million will be sought to make up for any fraudulent ones) and toss out a governor who has deceived the people and bungled their finances.
The All in the Family alum says this because it's likely that Republican actor Arnold Schwarzenegger will be written in to replace Gray-Out. Reiner made some hilariously absurd statements about this on Good Morning America. I guess he's one of these elitists who thinks laws only apply to Republicans, and that Democrats have a divine right to rule. Quote: "[T]he scary part is you've got a couple of well-funded Republicans out there that want to essentially steal an election. And the idea that you could govern the sixth largest economy in the world with 15 to 20% of the vote is very scary to me." What's scary is the idea that you could destroy the sixth largest economy of the world, as Davis has done.
Davis is turning his people into nothing more than serfs who'll work more to pay taxes than for food, clothing, rent and health care combined! Yet Meathead, who harbors gubernatorial delusions himself, rails against Arnold because "Republicans have this aversion to raising taxes." Yes, we do have an aversion to forcing people to work more hours and weeks as slaves to the government just so you can buy votes with programs that don't work! The last time I was in California, I didn't even address the state's election. One guy asked, "What about us in California?" during the Q&A section and I responded, "You're screwed. The good thing for me is I'm leaving here tomorrow. You can't."
This is a state that gives away citizens' money to people that don't even live there! Democracy isn't a dictator telling the idiot people what to do with their money, Meathead. Yet when the people of California voted not to provide welfare benefits and health care benefits to illegal - read "breaking the law" - aliens, a liberal judge overruled them. If you mention this to Democrats, they'll sneer, "Well, do you want to wash my dishes and pick my grapes, because there are jobs Americans won't do!" If you need those jobs done, then you pay for the health care of those who do them and bring them here legally! Or maybe do those jobs yourself, huh? Did that ever occur to you elitist slobs? Noooo. Your first, last and only answer to any need is, "Hey! Let's vote to force other people to pay for it!"
Only in the sense that they were both conceived by anal sex.
They will just vote against recall. The choice will be to keep Davis or vote for a Republican... They will vote to not recall and not vote for a replacement.
If Davis is recalled and a Republican takes his place, that Republican will be destroyed to a far greater extent than was Richard Nixon. It should not take an I.Q. larger than your shoe size to figure out the Democrats in the Legislature and the media will join to place all the blame for not fixing the state mess on the Republican Governor. LBJ got us into the quagmire of VietNam and Nixon got us out, but Nixon took the blame for VietNam. Nixon left office a hated man.
If a Republican succeeds Davis he will share the same fate as Dick Nixon. Most Republicans with a brain should know that and not many would chose that fate by allowing their name on the ballot.
The Davis strategy is to make the choice between retain Davis, or replace him with a nutty fringe Republican.
The object for Davis will be the same as in the General election. Drive the center away from voting. The normal elctorate is 10 million voters. Only 6 million of them voted for governor in 2002. The center did not vote. If Davis can sicken the center so that they think all of the Republican choices are as bad as Davis.. .the center will not vote again. That makes the contest between the Democrat and Republican base.
If Davis wins that contest, and he very likely would, he would become the legendary Democrat that the Republicans could not destroy. Davis would become a national Democratic hero.... Democrats would worhship him for the remainder of his live.
Davis could not get opposition he likes better, even if he got to chose them himself.
Do you really think the voters after 30 million dollars worth of advertising will not understand the two part question on the ballot? Get real? Everyone, even those who never had the slightest intention to vote, will know how to do it. You must have believed those stories about dumb voters in southern Florida. That will not be a problem. You are believing media hype.
If you think this election will take place this fall, you are in for a surprise. Davis will keep it in courts long enough so the election, if held, will take place at next springs Democratic primary.
How many times do the voters in California have to pass referendums and then have liberal judges overturn them before it seems possible it could happen just one more time in the recall.
You also assume that Arnold Schwarzenegger will put his name on the ballot. Use your head... Arnold has had it leaked that he wants to be on the ballot. But he knows full well that if he does get elected he would not get a second term. Arnold can not be so stupid as not to know that the Democrats in the Legislature have every reason to see Arnold fail. They and the media would fix it so Arnold would take the blame for the CONTINUING California mess. How many stories would be aired and printed that said "Schwarzenegger's record at Governor may be worse then his predecessor. Unable to work with the legislature and only able to generate animosity, Schwarzenegger is headed for the scrap heap of politics. Many people now think Gray Davis would have been a better choice than Schwarzenegger."
Arnold said he could fix it and he failed would be the Democratic pitch. Time to give a good Democrat a chance would be their plea. That would work.
However if Davis remains to try to fix things with the help of the Democratic legislature all of the right and most of the center will be very angy at the Democrats in 2006. Arnold could easily get elected and perhaps have a Republican or near Republican legislature. With a big success in California he just might go for the presidency. Don't you think that has crossed Arnold's Mind? It has Maria's for sure. The Arnold goal is to be president...
Arnold's options are to go for the recall and end his political career in 2 short years. Or back out at the last moment and wait for 2006. How could he do that? Read on and I will tell you.
Certainly the White House has told him to back out when push comes to shove. If Arnold does wait until 2006, he can be assured of tons of Bush raised money and support in 2006. Go after it now and he will get zero support from Bush. In addition he would face abandonment and perhaps open opposition by the national Republican party when he tries to run for reelection in 2006. He would be kissing any chance to be president goodbye.
Om the other hand if Arnold calls a press conference now and says, "I will not oppose Gray Davis at this time.", he will make a bunch of right wing enemies. His best shot is "think about it now" and then when the recall is approved call a press conference and say, "Congressman Issa started this and He and not I should have the chance to run with every loyal Republican's support. I will not run in this election. I am today endorsing Congressman Issa as the next Governor of California I will work to elect Congressman Issa and I will support him when he is in office. Congressman Issa is what California needs."
Imagine the cheers of the right wing fans as Arnold made that statement.. He would be a far right hero of the moment. That would help in 2006. It is in Arnold's long term interests to have Davis hold the Governorship so Arnold can run and bring a much bigger Republican voice to the legislature with him in 2006.
The center will be turned off in any recall, and the issue will be decided by Democrat Primary voters who came to select a Democrat nominee for President and Republican voters. It will be a rerun of the election in 2002 except the Republican turn out will be lower and the Democrat turn out higher.
Only if they change the Constitution.
Followed by Terminator 4 - draconian belt tightening to restore solvency.
Followed by the inevitable LA street riots.
BUMP
I live in this cesspool. I agree, it is very unlikely that the election will take place this fall. If they get around to certifying this in time--unlikely since those doing the certification are dems--than the next step will be the courts. More likely is that there will be foot dragging on the certification of the recall. Look for recall backers to head to court to try to force a certification. Then the quagmire is in full force.
You also assume that Arnold Schwarzenegger will put his name on the ballot.
I honestly think he will take a pass this year for the reasons you mentioned, but if he does run, I think he has an advantage over the Republican 'Mutt and Jeff' we will be running out here.
I don't for a minute underestimate the Davis smear machine out here. Issa will likely be the most prominent republican running--which says a lot about the state of the party out here. When Davis gets through with him anyone, even Davis will look good in comparison. Will Issa spend enough of his own money to counteract the Davis lies? I doubt it. It is going to get ugly out here. Unless the major media turns on him--not likely to happen, Davis will probably survive. I don't mind seeing Davis stew in the mess he has made out here, but if the recall does reach the ballot--and it eventually will--I would not choose a dem over a republican.
I'm in the minority out here.
Prop 187.
And it was a Federal Judge that burned our ballots and declared our free election illegal.
Destroying Davis is all part of the pay back. The same folks that supported 187, will remove Davis from office.
Prop 187.
And it was a Federal Judge that burned our ballots and declared our free election illegal.
Destroying Davis is all part of the pay back. The same folks that supported 187, will remove Davis from office.
Only if they change the Constitution.
You are right he is a naturalized citizen. I had forgotten. Thanks for the correction.
It is just that every politician wants to be president....even county commissioners.
But I still think Arnold wants a political career beyond one partial term as governor and a destroyed reputation. Being elected a Republican governor with the current state of the California legislature would be like playing Russian roulette with all six chambers loaded. No matter what happens Arnold would die a political death.
There are close to a half dozen in the Coachella Valley area, and I phoned the Desert Sun newsdesk (local paper) to inquire how one finds out about "posted odds" on slots, etc. I was told they'd been denied such data, since the Indians don't have to set odds, publicize them, or post them. Caveat Emptor.
Why these little old ladies keep pouring in never ceases to amaze me.
I completely disagree. We are not dealing with a low budget, backwater state here. This state budget can be turned around in record time, with the tough decisions that need to be made. Almost everyone here agrees, this needs to be done. This is an opportunity for someone to made a legacy for themselves. Like a CEO that turns a crippled corporation around. It will happen.
What I am confident wont happen, is someone that takes Davis's place, to continue the wild, lose lose spending that Davis practiced. Unfortunately, our Federal government seems to be following these same exact policies.
Have you considered the same people who overruled 187 will overule removing Davis from Office? There will be no election to remove Davis this fall. The obvious stall is to find one example of a duplicate name signed and then demand that all names be checked for dupicates by hand. To insure that happens davis could have several people sign duplicate petitions in several counties.
All it takes is a judge to agree that Duplicate names are illegal and evidence that some people had signed six or eight times in as many counties and that could take until christmas. Start with name 1 and then compare it to all 900 thousand others. Then do name 2 through name 900 thousand.
Then they will think of another reason the petitions could be invalid and file that suit. At some point the judges are going to have to refuse to hear anymore suits about invalid petitions...for this to make it to an actual election. ... That is assuming they ever do refuse to hear more suits and instead issue more temporary injunctions preventing the election for the next 3 years.
There is scenerio where the Judges finally dismiss the suits and recend the injuctions preventing a recall election. They may do it the day after the fall election of 2006.
What if it goes to the Federal Supreme court after the Chief Justice and Sandra Day O'Conner have resigned....That would make a nice 4 to 3 rat decision that a recall of Davis is illegal...
Payback... You are nowhere near payback yet... you may never get there.
Wrong, the payback is already here and is totally affecting Davis's entire administration, he's inundated with bad press every hour, all the local AND national talk shows are covering this daily, people that weren't going to sign, have seen the huge support for this recall, and they are now on board. The people are taking and showing their total outrage, and Davis *never* looked worse.
They are also predicting to have many thousands of signatures, way over and above than what is required.
All of this has brought focus to bear on his incompetent mismanagement of the state budget.
Those that laughed at the recall effort just a few weeks ago, are no longer laughing.
And even if your scenario came true, Davis is a walking dead man and he will ride this budget disaster right over the cliff, and If he remained in office until the end of his term, he will be voted down in a land slide. Remember, this guy was considered at one point to be a possible Presidential contender. That too is now history. The payback considerable.
Watching all of this from a distance, is very enjoyable, and is a genuine payback in my book. Earlier this week, images of Davis on the news clearly showed him as shaken and running scared. If it wasn't free, I would pay to see this.
Regardless of what happens in the future, this massive grassroots effort by the people of California and the coverage it's commanding, is all too sweet.
Revenge and payback are mine. Gawd, I love it so.
What an outrage! Everybody knows that only democrats are supposed to steal elections.
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