When Is Human Life A Human Being?

http://www.freebritannia.co.uk ^ | 6/16/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

In a recent article for First Things, Maureen L. Condic, PhD, Assistant professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, presents a convincing argument for meaning of the death protocol (used when organ harvesting is anticipated) to also be used when contemplating prenatal life. She has stated accurately that, “… the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.”

...

To paraphrase Dr. Condic’s assertion: to be alive as an ORGANISM, the organism is functioning as an integrated whole, rather than life being defined solely from an organ, a form within the organism. …

In order to accurately apply the meaning of the death protocol offered in Dr. Condic’s article, we will have to show how an embryo is more than a mere collection of cells. We will have to show how the embryo is in fact a functioning, integrated whole human organism. If the embryo can be defined on this basis, the definition of an alive, individual human being would fit, and the human being should be protected from exploitation and euthanasia.

What is the focus of the transition from embryo age to fetal age are the organs of the fetus. It is generally held that the organs are all in place when the individual life is redefined as a fetus. The gestational process during the fetal age is a process of the already constructed organs growing larger and more functional for survival. But during the fetal age, the not yet fully functional organs are not the sole sustainer of the individual life. The placenta is still drawing nourishment from the woman’s body and protecting the individual from being rejected as foreign tissue. If we are to apply the notion of a functioning integrated whole to define individual aliveness, the organs necessary for survival must all be included. Since the primitive brain stem and other organs such as primitive lungs, to be relied upon at a later age in the individual’s lifetime, are not yet fully functional, some other organ will have to be responsible for the functioning whole.

[XBob]

550 - "I've never seen anything come out of the womb other than a human being, have you?"

blood, and undeveloped human fertilized eggs and un-fertilized eggs.

[XBob]

551 - "In the case of cloning for medical research and destruction of embryos from in vitro fertilization for stem cells, there should be an added responsibility on the person who used complicated, purposeful actions, knowledge and technology to create a human life for the purpose of killing him or her."

So, don't do medical research, but at least save your won 'children' from dying. What kind of mother/person are you? With your own hands you flush them.

[XBob]

552 - "If I had my way, the Dr. Mengele's at the aborturaries and the woman to kills her child would both be tried for murder and sentenced under the U.S. and State statutes against homicide. We only have to change the laws to ensure that this will happen in the future."

So, what would you sentence your wife to? or hocndoc? for flushing their 'children' to death?

[XBob]

553 - "Are both fetuses and adults human beings? Yes."

You conveniently forget about 'being'. A fetus and an adult are both human. They are not both 'human beings'. The fetus is a 'potential' human being, once it gets born it is a human being.

[XBob]

556 - hocndoc - RinaseaofDs says "If you leave the egg and sperm in a petrie dish without implanting it in a womb, you get nothing. "

[XBob]

558 - "I've never failed to correct hyperglycemia in patients when I've had them in the hospital, on a hospital diet. On the contrary, I have to be careful that I don't lower their glucose too much."

Are you in Texas I have been to the Houston VA in the hospital several times, and when they put me on their diet, my sugar actually goes up. This has happened 3 times. A fourth time, they brought it down to 225 and kicked me out.

[XBob]

558 - "I've never failed to correct hyperglycemia in patients when I've had them in the hospital, on a hospital diet. On the contrary, I have to be careful that I don't lower their glucose too much."

Are you in Texas I have been to the Houston VA in the hospital several times, and when they put me on their diet, my sugar actually goes up. This has happened 3 times. A fourth time, they brought it down to 225 and kicked me out.

[XBob]

558 - "I've never failed to correct hyperglycemia in patients when I've had them in the hospital, on a hospital diet. On the contrary, I have to be careful that I don't lower their glucose too much."

Are you in Texas I have been to the Houston VA in the hospital several times, and when they put me on their diet, my sugar actually goes up. This has happened 3 times. A fourth time, they brought it down to 225 and kicked me out.

[XBob]

559 - "A zygote is a human being. A complete human being. "

Sorry - a zygote is not a 'complete' human being, otherwise pregnancy would be unnecessary.

[XBob]

560 - "I believe that when abortion is illegal again, illegal abortions should be treated the same way as crimes of mothers who kill their new borns or infants. And that doctors should be tried under criminal laws, as well as being punished by the Board of Medical Examiners."

Perhaps you arent' old enough to remember what it was like back before roeVwade. I remember. I remember the havoc which was wreaked on the lives, I remember the coat hangers, and the trips to "Europe" or to visit an Aunt for 9 months. I remember the hurried thousand mile trips to certain states for 'vacations'.

Basically, it was the rich who could afford to terminate pregnancies, and the poor suffered.

It certainly did cut down on pre-marital sex though.

[XBob]

564 - "I could if I chose to. If you will wait 20 or 30 years for the oak to grow"

I hate to use this example, but "it depends on the meaning of what is, is".

An acorn is not an oak. It is a potential oak.

[XBob]

571 - "I don't believe that we have the technology to "re-implant" those embryos that are passed due to failure. "

We have the technology to implant in-vitro fertilized eggs, so all we need to do is screen the menses, find the eggs, determine if they are fertilized and implant them.

One example - Pregnancy prevents implantation of other eggs, it does not prevent fertilization.

[XBob]

573 - "I will never forget my husband crying after our miscarriage. It meant the world to me that he cared so much."

Sounds like you and your husband have made a good match.

Keep him too, in your own reproductive affairs, not ours.

Please note the commercial I just saw on TV, while writing this, "Neglecting children can be child abuse." Will your commerical have a toilet flushing?

[XBob]

577 - well put: "What is the truth I must deny? That I should give you authority over me and my family? I must accept your interpretation of incomplete physical knowledge and your determination of what is moral regarding my family's reproductive decisions? No. That's not it. I must accept your beliefs regarding the ultimate form, meaning, and manifestation of life? No. What gives you that ultimate wisdom or authority? My beliefs and actions are somehow going to restrict your freedom? No. That applies only to your beliefs and actions. "

[XBob]

577 - MHGinTN

You are getting downright mean, just because you can't get your religious beliefs to prevail on us.

And don't tell me they aren't religious beliefs, just because you haven't discussed them on this thread. I remember discussing your strange religious beliefs which compelled you to mutilate your body to please your god on an old thread.

[XBob]

592 - "The Supreme Court decided that unborn babies aren't persons. They were wrong. "

Sorry, I didn't hear about that SC decision, repealing rVw, or do you just 'feel' that they were wrong?

[XBob]

"Try to be a bit more adult, if you're going to continue your 'over-the-topisms' game."

You and Tailgunner are both being very insulting. Get your S... together - both of youall.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Don't murder babies and we'll be nice to you.

[syriacus]

What religion thinks abortion is ok?

You don't know any religious people who support liberalized abotion? I'm surprised.

How about the Catholics for Choice groups that sign petitions that are put as ads in newspapers?

I guess I didn't make myself clear....

• You were talking about people forcing their religious beliefs on others.
• I said plenty of religious voters are for abortion
• Since there are religious people on both sides of the abortion issue, you can just as accurately say people are pro-abortion and pro-choice because of their religious beliefs.
• Religious beliefs are not the determining factor in abortion stances, any more than they are a determining factor in opposing rape.

If killing handicapped newborns becomes legal, but some people oppose it, will you say they are forcing their religious beliefs on people who don't want the burden of a handicapped child?

[exmarine]

blood, and undeveloped human fertilized eggs and un-fertilized eggs.

What about that little creature-thing that was butchered by Dr. Mengele at the abortuary? What is that? Is it human? Yes or no?