When Is Human Life A Human Being?

http://www.freebritannia.co.uk ^ | 6/16/2003 | Marvin Galloway

[MHGinTN]

In a recent article for First Things, Maureen L. Condic, PhD, Assistant professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, presents a convincing argument for meaning of the death protocol (used when organ harvesting is anticipated) to also be used when contemplating prenatal life. She has stated accurately that, “… the loss of integrated bodily function, not the loss of higher mental ability, is the defining legal characteristic of death.”

...

To paraphrase Dr. Condic’s assertion: to be alive as an ORGANISM, the organism is functioning as an integrated whole, rather than life being defined solely from an organ, a form within the organism. …

In order to accurately apply the meaning of the death protocol offered in Dr. Condic’s article, we will have to show how an embryo is more than a mere collection of cells. We will have to show how the embryo is in fact a functioning, integrated whole human organism. If the embryo can be defined on this basis, the definition of an alive, individual human being would fit, and the human being should be protected from exploitation and euthanasia.

What is the focus of the transition from embryo age to fetal age are the organs of the fetus. It is generally held that the organs are all in place when the individual life is redefined as a fetus. The gestational process during the fetal age is a process of the already constructed organs growing larger and more functional for survival. But during the fetal age, the not yet fully functional organs are not the sole sustainer of the individual life. The placenta is still drawing nourishment from the woman’s body and protecting the individual from being rejected as foreign tissue. If we are to apply the notion of a functioning integrated whole to define individual aliveness, the organs necessary for survival must all be included. Since the primitive brain stem and other organs such as primitive lungs, to be relied upon at a later age in the individual’s lifetime, are not yet fully functional, some other organ will have to be responsible for the functioning whole.

[MHGinTN]

Your education is quite starkly lacking, Bob! Once the union of spermatazoon and ovum is accomplished and the chromosomal mass is back to 46 for the conceptus, there ceases to be a 'fertilized egg' Bob. Much as you might like to apply chicken genesis to human life because chickens are not 'over your head', you will have to come to grips with the truth regarding individual human life if you are to avoid amking a fool of yourself with silly erroneous posts like the one above in answer to hocndoc.

[mommadooo3]

You're RIGHT...my opinion has very little worth. What I have to say contibutes very little to the 'world'. And my assertions have no bearing on MY credibility. But it's NOT my credibility at stake.

I am NOT flaming you, EITHER. But this is what is 'written' and I can find NO 'reason'/no 'explanation' to disprove it.

For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful, this I know. My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be." Psalms 139:13-16

"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you." Jeremiah 1:5

[XBob]

I am curious, hocndoc,

SA says, "At least not as far as finding a mother and lab technician guilty of murder for disposing of unwanted fertilized eggs. I would find a mother guilty of murder if she killed her post-birth baby."

If you used birth control pills which work by causing implant failures, how many 'babies' have you killed, and what do you think your punishment should be?

[mommadooo3]

From the last class I remember, sperm and egg are always TRYING to collide. The 'lucky' sperm that succeeds in a collision/penetration/impact is what causes fertilization.

[mommadooo3]

Kindly explain how everyone you named in post #293 has posed a 'strawman'?

[XBob]

365 - "If you've been under deep anesthesia, you were no longer a human being by your flawed definition of same."

So, then I must be GOD, or at least Lazarus. My goodness, thankyou for the upgrade in status, but I don't think I deserve that.

As far as your Grandparent's funeral for a miscarriage. Thank you for advising. That is the first I have ever heard of. Some of My family members had miscarriages, and never had funerals.

So, I guess that makes your family more religious than my family.

Any one else on the thread know of funerals for miscarriages, or better yet for implant failures?

"You're having entirely too much fun playing agitator, guy!"

But it's so easy to bring out flaws in youall's arguments and beliefs, and so much fun. But I do have a serious purpose, as I don't want youall's misguided beliefs to cause a change in Roe-v-Wade. I remember the familial havoc's caused before it, and the destroyed lives. There was a good side to it though, and there were far fewer unwanted children born into the world, which I think is great. There are few sadder things than an unwanted child (who has been born).

[syriacus]

Did you have a funeral for your mis-carriage, once you came to your new beliefs? Or funerals for your fertilized eggs?

Just how is a woman supposed to plan a funeral for a sloughed-off fertilized egg? Women are rarely aware when their fertilized eggs are sloughed off. (I'll bet you knew that already).

[Hank Kerchief]

Did you ever have a Filipino Balut?

In 1961, just ouside Clark Airforce Base, I had an opportunity to try that delicacy. It is the only food (and I've eaten everthing from mang dah (Thai beetles, delicious) to wild boar, that I could not manage to put in my mouth. In those days they did absolutely nothing to make them edible and the odor was not appetizing.

So, the answer is, "almost."

Hank

[MHGinTN]

The comment was aimed at DoughtyOne, and all others were pinged to the comments.

[XBob]

371 - Sorry, I think, perhaps like some others here, that sperm and egg are 'alive' before their union, and that 'aliveness' is transferred into another place to another form.

Sperm and egg are no more/less alive when together than when separate.

Better start working on getting your sperm into some eggs MHG, you are letting down those poor sperm.

[MHGinTN]

Bob, once again your lack of education in these matters is showing ... or perhaps it's just your fun at agitating thus you mischaracterize for the 'irritation to others' you crave.

Contraceptive pills are designed to work by preventing the release of an ovum (until timed just right) via interruption in the leutinizing hormone cycle. Most also have a secondary (that means not the primary or main) effect to destabilize the uterine lining so that implantation fails or doesn't last when the menses is stimulated by withdrawal of the hormone 'extras'. The secondary effect is relevaent only in cycles where a conception might hvae occurred ... and that's why contraceptive pills aren't 100% effective, guy.

[mommadooo3]

Thanks so VERY much for the reply!

Many blessings!

[MHGinTN]

I had a vasectomy deacdes ago, Bob. It is far better than putting a woman's body through the ravages of hormonal manipulations.

[XBob]

so, I guess we should castrate all males after their first sex or take out the ovaries of all women after their first sex, so we don't make any unwanted 'people'.

That should solve the problem.

[MHGinTN]

You get such a kick out of posing weird extremes! LOL

[XBob]

378 - "or spit on your dissembling."

Now that is downright mean. Do you call all people who disagree with your beliefs liars?

[XBob]

381 - "Once the union of spermatazoon and ovum is accomplished and the chromosomal mass is back to 46 for the conceptus, there ceases to be a 'fertilized egg' Bob."

Ah, then you disagree with all those on this thread who insist that a human being exists at the moment a sperm and egg unit?

Now, where else do you disagree, and if that is not correct, when does a human being begin?

[Hank Kerchief]

The thread is titled: "When Is Human Life A Human Being?"

My reason for posting is because I dissagree with the premise of this thread. If only those who agree with it post to it, where would the discussion be?

My point is that it is a mistake to use the word "human" for every state of an organism, from conception to death, if the same word is going to be used to determine principles of ethics.

I have no disagreement the fact that it is the same organism from conception to death, or that it is genetically human from conception to death. The point is that morality pertains to a very specific class of beings, those who are capable of making moral choice. It is those beings that require freedom (which is the fundamental right) because only those beings are capable of rational choice.

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to embrace this view. I am only stating the rational principles that I understand. Some may benefit from them. Most will not.

Ultimately, the truth is justified of her children. Reality, not words, is the ultimate arbiter of truth.

(Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:35)

Hank

[XBob]

387 - "Just how is a woman supposed to plan a funeral for a sloughed-off fertilized egg? Women are rarely aware when their fertilized eggs are sloughed off. "

Well, as 40% of all fertilized eggs fail to implant (on a general average), it's pretty certain that most all women who have sex have eggs which fail to implant.

Though I don't know (we need someone with more biological expertice than me), I would think that most 'late' period, for every woman (during her fertile period of life), were failed implants, unless there was another good explanation, like among female athletes.

So, I would think, every woman should have at least one or more 'memorial' services after each 'late' period, rather than the 'thank God/goodness' most women have when their 'late' period arrives.

[Jorge]

When Is Human Life A Human Being?

When Is Human Life NOT A Human Being?