What if Hitler Had Invaded the United States in World War Two?

Ave Maria

[AveMaria]

This is a nightmare scenario targetted towards all of you World War Two history buffs.

About a week ago, a statue of Eisenhower was unveiled at the Capitol in DC, honoring President Eisenhower in his army uniform. In a speech commemorating that occassion, Bob Dole asked the audience to consider what would have happened if Ike had failed in his crusade. Is there a possibility that Hitler would have managed to take advantage of political, regional, and ethnic divisions in America in the 1940s, and defeated good old USA?

It certainly would not have been possible for Hitler to stage a successful naval invasion across the Atlantic to take the Eastern Seaboard, irrespective of whether or not America succeded in Europe. He simply did not have a Navy that was large enough for that task.

I considered various ways in which the Germans would have defeated America, assuming that they had succeeded in their mission to conquer the Soviet Union:

1. They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada, from which they would have launched a massive invasion from the sparsely populated North-Western US.

2. Using the historic grievances that Mexico has, especially over territorial loss in the 1848 war, Hitler could have encouraged the Mexicans to stage a massive military invasion from the South (something similar to what their illegals are already doing). Given that many South Americans had pro-axis fascist feelings during the war, Brazil and Argentina could have send their own armies as well, to support the Mexicans. And, considering that Latin America continued to trade with Germany in the war years, Germany would have been able to move massive armaments and troops to South America, support an invasion from Mexico. As a reward, Mexico would have been rewarded with the return of California, New Mexico and Arizona. The rest of South America would have had a chance to be freed from American regional dominance that has existed since the Monroe Doctrine.

3. Hitler could have reached out to the anti-FDR right-wing, the likes of Charles Lindberg, Henry Ford, Rev. Charles Coughlin, and their many followers who were influential in the America First Movement. He could have used the resentment that Irish-Americans and German-Americans had for Anglo elites who wanted to save Britain, a nation that many in both groups disliked (I am Irish myself, and I am aware about how many Irishmen resented going to help Britain. The Republic of Ireland made a conscious decision to stay neutral in the war to the very end).

4. Germany could have offered the South a second chance. If the South militarily supported the defeat of the Yankees, they could get back the Confederate States of America. The CSA would have been a fully independent right-wing nation that was allied to Germany, like Franco's Spain. They would have been allowed to preserve their system of segregation, a system that Germans approved of.

5. In the 1940s, Eugenics was highly favored by both liberal and conservative elites in New England. American race scientists like H. Goddard, Carl Bingham, Madison Grant, and Lothrop Stoddard were standard readings in the school system in Nazi Germany. A shared interest in race issues would have brought the Nazis and the New England Eugenicists together.

A combination of all those forces would have overwhelmed the FDR administration.

[Petronski]

If he had won, Pat Buchanan might today be Chancel...err..President.

And at least one tag line at FR would read "Heil Pat, heil!"

[Terp]

Supply lines, supply lines!!!!! What was the German Army going to do? Live off the land. It would have never happened.

[AveMaria]

>>>The U.S. war machine by then was in high gear and fighting the war in two separate oceans. Hitler was doomed.<<<

If Hitler had been successful in conquering the Soviet Union, it would have been easier for him to take on America, without pressure from the Eastern Front.

Certainly, conquering America, the world's largest industrial war machine, would have been one hell of a challenge, even if Hitler had managed to somehow move hundreds of thousands of troops, tanks and aircraft to Mexico and Canada.

But I was wondering if he would have received support from fifth columnists in America, who may have viewed it as advantageous to work with him.

[Petronski]

...his scientists were working on the atom bomb using the heavy water from Norway for experimentation.

Not for long. They sought the heavy water, but by the time we got to Germany, it was discovered the program had long been abandoned.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Oh and by the way in the 1940's one did not 'roll down' Alaska. The Alcan Highway was not built until the 1950's-the late 1950's if I remember correctly.

[section9]

What do the World War Two Buffs think of that nightmare scenario? Any possibility that the Germans could have expolited divisions in the US and the Americas, to defeat the US?

In short, no.

Whatever the outcome of Fall BARBAROSSA, the sinking of the Bismarck in May of 1941 removed Germany's last major surface combatant. Though Germany's U-Boats would do catastrophic damage up through mid-1943, Germany's lack of aircraft carriers, major surface combatants, and most of all, sealift and amphibious landing capability prevented any transantlantic ambitions from coming to pass. Indeed, the lack of sealift and landing capability, as much as the failure of the Luftwaffe to defeat the RAF in July and August of 1940, was as much responsible for the failure of Fall SEELOWE ("Sealion"), the projected invasion of Britain.

It is impossible to suppose that Germany, as it was even at the height of its powers in April of 1941, could have threatened America's domination of the Atlantic basin. It follows from that argument that no invasion of the United States could have gone much past a theoretical wargame at OKW Plans.

Not even the world's third strongest navy, Japan's Nihon Kaigun, could threaten the hold of the U.S. Navy on the oceans over a protracted period. As it was, Japan was only able to seize Attu and Kiska islands in the Aleutians.

Finally, a German invasion of Alaska presupposes a supply train that runs from Vladivostok all the way back to Western Russia on the Trans-Siberian Railway without attacks by Russian and Siberian partisans. Not freaking likely.

Continental powers such as France, Germany, and Russia appear incredibly strong but are never capable of winning global wars. Why? They don't control the seas. That's the key to everything. The Brits, the Americans, and the Aussies do.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[mitchbert]

When it comes to invading the U.S. the ultimate problem isn't getting past the U.S. military, it's dealing with the 80 million snipers once you're there.

I paraphrased it based on memory, but believe it or not those were effectively Stalin's words when asked about the possibility of invading America. I wish I had a handy cite, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

[AntiGuv]

Assuming for the moment that our alternate history includes a successful completion and demonstration of the Manhattan Project, then Hitler would no doubt have completed his own crash development program at least as swiftly as the Russians did. The greatest problem that the Nazi researchers faced was that they never decided whether it was even possible (and there's reason to believe Heisenberg purposely made it appear so).

[Spruce]

If I'm not mistaken, the Germans were pretty close to developing an atomic weapon. Given enough time Werner van Braun and his crew would have come up with a vehicle capable of delivery. The "Battle for America" would have been quite costly to America.

[McGavin999]

The American people are NOT like the french. He would have had his hands full and I seriously doubt he would have made it even in the east coast during that time. Now today might be a little different considering how many people are now unarmed.

[AveMaria]

>>>When it comes to invading the U.S. the ultimate problem isn't getting past the U.S. military, it's dealing with the 80 million snipers once you're there.<<<

You are right about that. I took that into account.

That is why I was wondering if he could have gotten some co-operation from part of the population, such as anti-New Deal midwesterners who revered Robert Taft, and the South.

He could have offered them self government, without Germans troops on their streets.

[Princeliberty]

Hitler could have built a Navy to attack US
and built long range bombers.
After conquering Eurasia and Africia
he could outbuilt the US in everything.

The Germans in 30s had plans and were in the process
of building a world class felt that would
have superior to BRN, but Hilter attacked
too soon the fleet would not been finished until
1944.

[weegee]

In short, had Hitler succeeded in conquering the Soviet Union and the British Empire, we were soon on the list - probably by 1950 at the latest.

We might have had to deal with Nazi Germany's missile technology had the "war" lasted until the 1950s.

[Miss Marple]

You know, this makes me remember an article in one of the Sunday newspaper magazines from my childhood. This would have been in the mid-50's or so, because I read it myself, and the illustrations impressed me.

Apparently (going on my memory here so please bear with me) there was some sort of invasion plan cooked up by Hitler and the Japanese. They had a plan to divide the occupation of the US at the Rocky Mountains..everyething west of the Rockies would be administered by the Japanese, everything east would be run by the Germans.

Of course, in the mid-50's the memory of the war was still recent, so there were still articles focussing on how dangerous Hitler was, and perhaps this was a fantasy or an exagerration. However, as a child, let me tell you that the map they showed left a HUGE impression on me, if I could remember it all these years later.

[Nexus]

With "Western Europe defeated", Hitler, Italy, and the Japs could have concentrated all firepower on the east (USSR). With the Big Bear down, Alaska really is just a stone's throw away from Siberia. Transports could have been accommodated by the Japanese fleet (if they weren't so busy island hopping).

[Paleo Conservative]

Hitler could not even get across the English channel much less the Behring Strait. Hitler did not 'have the horses.'

Also, where would the ships to mount an amphibous assault come from, Europe? If they came from European shipyards, there would be numerous opportunities to attack them before they could ever reach the Bearing strait. The Allies controlled both ends of the Mediterranean, so the ships would have to go around Africa at the Cape of Good Hope, the sail across the Indian Ocean till they reached the Pacific Ocean. Along most of the way they would be vulnerable to attacks from the planes of aircraft carriers and land based long range heavy bombers like the B-17 and B-29.

[Tennessee_Bob]

4. Germany could have offered the South a second chance. If the South militarily supported the defeat of the Yankees, they could get back the Confederate States of America. The CSA would have been a fully independent right-wing nation that was allied to Germany, like Franco's Spain. They would have been allowed to preserve their system of segregation, a system that Germans approved of.

Nope, sorry - wouldn't have happened. While we're from the South, we're not stupid. After what they did to Poland, Russian, France - and at this point it would likely be Britain as well - do you think that the South would trust anyone that made promises like that? Hell, the North sent their carpetbaggers, and they spoke English (even though they talk funny) - the German's wouldn't stand a chance.

Although, we might've invited them to land - just brings them closer so we can shoot them easier.

[Princeliberty]

If Hitler conquers Eurasia and Africa
and has his jets in full production
delivering an atomic bomb onto anything
of great strategic importance would
have been no small feat.

And Hitler got rockers first.
So likely he gets ICBM's first and
wins the war by destroying
Washington DC and NYC.

[soundbits]

Paperclip.

[Vinnie]

his scientists were working on the atom bomb using the heavy water from Norway for experimentation.

Fortunately the heavy water plant was destroyed in a raid( British I think). I remember a great movie ( don't remember the name though) concerning it.