Posted on 06/16/2003 6:15:57 PM PDT by AveMaria
This is a nightmare scenario targetted towards all of you World War Two history buffs.
About a week ago, a statue of Eisenhower was unveiled at the Capitol in DC, honoring President Eisenhower in his army uniform. In a speech commemorating that occassion, Bob Dole asked the audience to consider what would have happened if Ike had failed in his crusade. Is there a possibility that Hitler would have managed to take advantage of political, regional, and ethnic divisions in America in the 1940s, and defeated good old USA?
It certainly would not have been possible for Hitler to stage a successful naval invasion across the Atlantic to take the Eastern Seaboard, irrespective of whether or not America succeded in Europe. He simply did not have a Navy that was large enough for that task.
I considered various ways in which the Germans would have defeated America, assuming that they had succeeded in their mission to conquer the Soviet Union:
1. They might have attempted to conquer Alaska, based on their ability to control Siberia and the arctic regions of Russia. From there, they would have rolled over poorly defended Canada, from which they would have launched a massive invasion from the sparsely populated North-Western US.
2. Using the historic grievances that Mexico has, especially over territorial loss in the 1848 war, Hitler could have encouraged the Mexicans to stage a massive military invasion from the South (something similar to what their illegals are already doing). Given that many South Americans had pro-axis fascist feelings during the war, Brazil and Argentina could have send their own armies as well, to support the Mexicans. And, considering that Latin America continued to trade with Germany in the war years, Germany would have been able to move massive armaments and troops to South America, support an invasion from Mexico. As a reward, Mexico would have been rewarded with the return of California, New Mexico and Arizona. The rest of South America would have had a chance to be freed from American regional dominance that has existed since the Monroe Doctrine.
3. Hitler could have reached out to the anti-FDR right-wing, the likes of Charles Lindberg, Henry Ford, Rev. Charles Coughlin, and their many followers who were influential in the America First Movement. He could have used the resentment that Irish-Americans and German-Americans had for Anglo elites who wanted to save Britain, a nation that many in both groups disliked (I am Irish myself, and I am aware about how many Irishmen resented going to help Britain. The Republic of Ireland made a conscious decision to stay neutral in the war to the very end).
4. Germany could have offered the South a second chance. If the South militarily supported the defeat of the Yankees, they could get back the Confederate States of America. The CSA would have been a fully independent right-wing nation that was allied to Germany, like Franco's Spain. They would have been allowed to preserve their system of segregation, a system that Germans approved of.
5. In the 1940s, Eugenics was highly favored by both liberal and conservative elites in New England. American race scientists like H. Goddard, Carl Bingham, Madison Grant, and Lothrop Stoddard were standard readings in the school system in Nazi Germany. A shared interest in race issues would have brought the Nazis and the New England Eugenicists together.
A combination of all those forces would have overwhelmed the FDR administration.
If US Naval intelligence had not cracked the Japanese naval codes, we might have lost the battle of Midway and control of Midway Island. In that case, there probably would have been an attempt to invade Hawaii. The destruction of four Japanese aircraft carriers (three of them witin five minutes) prevented additional naval offensives agains the US.
Forstchens "Lost Regiment" Series is a romp too, more in the sci-fi alternative arena though.
If you're interested in gaming a couple of scenarios, if you kick major butt as the Germans in Panzer General II in the Blitzkrieg Campaign you eventually end up invading England and then on to the US landing at Saratoga and a final engagement with the defenders of Oak Ridge. Two situations unfold, an early and a late. Its WAY harder to beat England and the US with Pzkfw III's and IV's in an earlier run than later with Tiger II's, Panther G's, Jets, and self propelled howitzers, though the Americans have the P-80 and the computer fights American forces like we're possesed :)
We knew next to nothing about the Russian space or atomic programs and it was Ike, as prez, who pushed these crucial programs forward. He was a great prez, better than most people think. Certainly much better than Klintoon and several other presidents.
This is true, however to view this scenario in it's fullest you have to determine if the Russians had been defeated, the British Isles invaded and nothing to stop Hitler and his scientist from rapid development of more 'wonder' weapons.
IF you take into account the huge amount of resources availe and the lack of any substaintial opposition he could have developed the weapon(s) needed for just 1 launch at the North American continent. He would have to have many...one a month? One every 6 months?
Who would fear that now? Or even think it was true?
I don't think we'd go down at this time, if we did, we'd sure take a lot of them with us ;)
With better spies Germany could have developed the atomic bomb and avoided losing. I agree he could not have won though.
How about if instead of invading the Soviet Union he became military allies with Stalin? He started out that way with Poland.
You probably think that Hollywood and the media are controlled by jews too.
For anyone venturing upon our shores with malice the South is the Killing Ground...our Killing Ground...
I basically agree with you but consider a Mexico-Germany alliance combined with the placement of hundreds of V2 rockets circa, say, 1946. Hitler might not have beat us but he could have forced us to cease hostilities and possibly forced the election of a pacifist. With all our major cities threatened who knows?
This is incidentally the same concern we all have about terrorists and WMDs. If they can make good on threats to destroy one major city at a time (like Lex Luthor in Superman) would we fight or just give up? Would we die in defense of our nation or accept life as slaves?
You are incorrect. The Alcan Highway,now called the Alaska Highway,was built in a five month period in 1942. The US Army Corps of Engineers, using Army Engineers, and civilian contractors, built it to supply the Russian Lend-Lease program, which staged through Fairbanks.
After the war, in 1946, it was opened to the public. Improvement work continues to this day.
When we first came over the road, in 1958, the road was virtually all dust or mud. Today, though the miles can still be monotonous, it is a two lane paved road. There are towns with all services along it's length. The onlty glimpses of the past are construction zones and a short stretch along Kluane Lake. Even there the road is paved, though it is very narrow and winds along between the lake and the Mountains.
We are saying the same thing, just differently.
Germany MIGHT have won if Hitler stayed out of the Generals way, but with Hitler in control, Russia would never fall.
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