He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 15, 2003 | Mary Mitchell

[Mister Magoo]

He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

June 15, 2003

BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Ten years ago, Darren Washington, 33, made a dramatic lifestyle change. He decided to abstain from sex until he got married. It is a choice that makes sense in a world where sex can literally kill you. But the fear of sexually transmitted diseases was not the only thing that motivated Washington to try celibacy. Given the pain sexual relationships can cause, he wanted to be part of the solution--not part of the problem.

On Saturday, June 21, he will be one of the panelists for "What Men Don't Like To Talk About" at Being Single Magazine's 5th Annual Bachelor Breakfast.

Washington, director of external affairs for SBC Indiana, says his celibacy has frustrated some women.

"A lot of women wanted to be sexually active," he said. "And you have so many people fronting. What I found out is that women wanted a man who was going to be faithful to her because a lot of men are juggling different women, having sex with different women, and so women thought it would be OK if I was only having sex with them."

Some women backed away after realizing Washington took abstinence seriously.

"I told one woman I just wanted to be friends and she said she already had enough friends," he said.

Then, there's the hurry-up-and-get-on-with-it sister.

"I dated a very intelligent woman, an attorney, who was OK with celibacy," Washington said. "But after six months, she wanted me to make a commitment. She felt if she knew we were going to marry then she could abstain. I couldn't make that promise."

Washington, a state-certified HIV/AIDS counselor, regularly speaks out about abstinence. He says he does so because it is the best alternative, particularly for African-American couples.

"I think a lot of people--men and women--don't understand the emotional and psychological effects that premarital sex cause besides teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

"When you give your body, you open an area to them that is really sacred. You exchange spirits with that person and that is how you end up with heartaches, pain and jealousy. There are women out here who are cheating just like men. You can't blame one [gender] more than the other. If men stood up and took the initiative and treated women with more respect and respected their bodies, women would want their bodies respected."

Sex shouldn't be part of a dating relationship, Washington said.

"You really truly have to be patient and wait for the right man to come into your life," he said. "There are a lot of men out here who have their pick of the litter. They date a lot of women and they know they are a good catch. They are financially together and a lot of these men are having sex with a lot of different women."

In the abstinence world, a date is a date.

"There are certain things that are off limits if you are not willing to be married," he said. "I can go out with different people to have fun, but I don't expect sex and I don't expect them to take their clothes off."

But for a lot of men, sex is seen as their reward for showing his date a good time.

""I don't expect a woman to have sex with me because I took her out to dinner and spent $100," Washington counters. "That should be normal if I am trying to win her hand and to prove to her I'm the man of her dreams.

On the other side, women who do not have romantic feelings for a man may get involved with him sexually because he is financially solid and drives a nice car, Washington pointed out.

"We have to stop using each other," he said. "One way to do that is to abstain."

Of course, the real question is whether Washington is really one of those brothers on the down-low. He chuckled when I asked, but admitted it wasn't the first time he's been asked about his sexuality.

"People live an alternative lifestyle for sexual liberation, not sexual resignation," he said. "Right now, a lot of people are looking for a cure to AIDS. My issue is, yes, we need drugs that will stop the spread of AIDS, but what about the people who don't have it. They need to abstain. If you can't put a ring on a woman's finger or you don't want to marry the brother, you shouldn't be out there."

As noted in a recent Sun-Times special report on marriage, African Americans marry at a significantly lower rate than other racial groups in the United States. By age 30, 81 percent of white women and 77 percent of Asians and Hispanics will marry, but only 52 percent of black women will do so, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

After talking to Washington, I recalled something my father used to say when his daughters started dating: "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?" Of course, we didn't listen. As things have turned out, fathers knew best after all.

For additional information about next Saturday's panel discussion, please call (312) 567-9900.

[Stone Mountain]

If that is true, how much more responsibility lies in actions that may result in the creation of a life?

I don't know what you want me to say. I've acknowledged that it's a great responsibility, the greatest I would ever take on in this life. This is why I take actions to minimize it happening.

[Stone Mountain]

I want to repeat my last question to you: Are you saying that it isn't possible for anyone to fall in love if they engage in pre-marital sex?
I don't quite understand how you got that out of what I wrote, but the answer is "NO".

So when you said, "Your attitude is shallow, and I'd bet that your love for any woman is shallow as well." what did you base that on? I admit that I was just guessing about the pre-marital sex part, but I didn't know what other information about me you had to come to this conclusion.

I also am puzzled as to why it seems such a burden to abstain until such time as you have found and married a woman that you can and would want to spend a lifetime with, and be able to then enjoy the sexual union that much more? It would be worth the wait, and it would not do you any harm.

If you don't understand why it would be such a burden, I don't think I can explain it to you. It is important to me to connect with women I am seeing on that level. It is also important to the women I see. Other than in the anonymity of a forum such as this, I only discuss these matters with my partner, and do not feel that anyone besides my partner and myself know what is and isn't worth doing in our realationship. I would never claim that my way is the only way, but it is working for myself and my partners. I believe I am happier and will be happier this way. You believe that you are and will be happier practicing abstinence until marriage. Different strokes, etc.

I'm not trying to force my beliefs on anyone, nor could I.

I agree. But what you are doing, is passing judgement on my life given very little information about it. I don't consider this forcing your beliefs on me - I'm glad to hear anyone's opinion and I don't hold it against people that they disaree with me, nor do I consider opposing views coercive. I am trying to point out to you, however, that when you call my attitude shallow and my relationships with women shallow, it is based purely on a prejudice of yours. When you say that my way of thinking is a "self-centered exercise in self-gratification, with only passing thought given to the effects of that action on another or others," it reflects this idea that for some reason, I don't give significant thought to the effects of my actions on others. Why would you think I'm shallow or don't care about others?

[Stone Mountain]

Well, then, what source(s) of morality do you look to? How do they compare with the Bible? Certainly that is a fair question, and a worthwhile exercise.

Well, one thing that almost all religions and beliefs systems have is some version of the Golden Rule - do unto others, etc, etc and this is about as close to a pan-religious/pan-mankind rule one can find. I believe that morality thoroughout the ages has flowed from the Golden Rule and rules like it.

See: http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk/golden.html

Wouldn't it also be a fair statement to say that the morality which shows itself to be the highest one should be the one to be followed?

I'll buy that. Who gets to judge?

[Chemist_Geek]

Circumstances can make you celibate involuntarily, but the test is when circumstances do not prevent you from having the opportunity. It's a little thing called "character".

I will have been invcel (involuntarily celibate) for three years in August. I've been chaste since Decenber 2000. (Yes. There's an odd overlap.)

That is true, to a point. So are you saying that if there was a willing member of the other sex, you'd jump on it just because it's there? then you prove that you don't have self-control.

I had been chaste my whole life until after my engagement. However, when Dr. Jekyll turned into Ms. Hyde, I was glad to get out of there before the wedding with my skin intact. (Literally..!)

It was easy for me to be chaste, however, because apparently I am not an attractive man. So, I would consider a woman's willingness to have sex with me a great compliment. Those who have had a great deal of success (even in just asking the time) from the other sex will not understand that. Heck, I'm darn near ecstatic when one of my women friends acknowledges my existence...

Believe me, I know that it's slim pickings. There are an awful lot of truly messed up women out there, an awful lot who say they want a good man, but won't take him when they have him. Same way for women. Real men are few and far between.

I know now that women are not necessarily good people. *laugh* The first thing I'd probably think, once She (whoever She is) makes her interest clear, is "What is she trying to get out of me?"

In direct answer to your question, it depends. If (by some miracle) we had formed a romantic relationship with long-term prospects, then the temptation would be much greater to have sex were it offered. If, OTOH, there were no such future, it'd be a lot easier to just go home instead.

[LJPenney]

Yeah I passed--but that doesn't mean that I enjoyed it!

~L

[chasio649]

as soon as you come up for air and realize it's all a lie and you've been brainwashed.

[Lazamataz]

It was easy for me to be chaste, however, because apparently I am not an attractive man. So, I would consider a woman's willingness to have sex with me a great compliment. Those who have had a great deal of success (even in just asking the time) from the other sex will not understand that. Heck, I'm darn near ecstatic when one of my women friends acknowledges my existence..

Look, bud, it ain't about physical attractiveness all so much. I'm no stud muffin, let me tell you, but I have been paired with hotty after hotty most of my life. It's about who you are inside. Can you express yourself well? Do you have a willingness to spend quality companionship time with your mate, and are your activities engaging? And,(in the category of lessons recently learned) do you think of your partners well-being a lot? Can you be honest even about the petty shit?

Physical attractiveness is a factor that lasts about 4 months, I have observed. After that, no matter how amazing they look or how ugly they might be, they become -- simply -- Sue, or Jane, or Mary.

Same goes the other way. Your attractiveness won't matter in the long haul. Keep your head up high, and if you feel you are valuable, value yourself.

[Libertina]

If he's dating her for 6 months, doesn't know if he loves her, I think she was right to move on. Something seems odd here. For starters I'd say "control."

[Chemist_Geek]

Your attractiveness won't matter in the long haul.

As you say, physical attractiveness won't matter in the long run. I, however, didn't write physical attractiveness; I wrote merely "attractiveness."

Physical attractiveness does open doors. However, I'd like to think that a woman so shallow as to be turned on or off by mere appearances, wouldn't appeal to me.

Keep your head up high, and if you feel you are valuable, value yourself.

And, if all available experimental evidence - rejection after rejection, failure to even successfully begin relationships - supports the opposite hypothesis? What then am I to conclude? I am not valuable, because no one values me enough to love me. (I can't be a reliable judge of my own value; I'm biased!)

[BenR2]

as soon as you come up for air and realize it's all a lie and you've been brainwashed.

////////////////////
Brainwashed? Brainwashed? If believing in Christ as LORD and Saviour unto the salvation of my eternal soul from a richly deserved everlasting punishment in the Lake of Fire qualifies me as "brainwashed," then, yes -- I definitely AM brainwashed.

Brainwashed, indeed.

[nobdysfool]

I would never claim that my way is the only way, but it is working for myself and my partners. I believe I am happier and will be happier this way. You believe that you are and will be happier practicing abstinence until marriage. Different strokes, etc.

Do each of your "partners" know you're sharing yourself with others? Not that it matters to me, really. Obviously you've decided on an arrangement that you feel works for you, and even if you're all willing and informed, it still doesn't make it right. For you to say so is nothing but situational ethics. Saying that the situation determines its own morality is in effect saying tht there is no absolute standard of right and wrong. Our laws aren't based on that concept. If they were, there could not really be any laws. Think about it.

I am trying to point out to you, however, that when you call my attitude shallow and my relationships with women shallow, it is based purely on a prejudice of yours. When you say that my way of thinking is a "self-centered exercise in self-gratification, with only passing thought given to the effects of that action on another or others," it reflects this idea that for some reason, I don't give significant thought to the effects of my actions on others. Why would you think I'm shallow or don't care about others?

Call it a prejudice of mine if you want, but by the standard I am trying to uphold, your actions cause harm to others, whether you know it or not, or whether they admit it or not. You are using them for your own gratification, and they may very well be using you for the same reason. You have to allow for that possibility. It could all be an elaborate game, and even if all participants are willing, it's still a game. I'm speaking about that which I have learned through experience. I don't expect to change your mind, but I can't just act as if I agree with your choice, because I don't. And maybe you haven't considered this, but if you're bedding two or more females, you have made it that much harder for at least one other guy to find the woman that he could be happy with, and maybe even marry. Why? Because if she's involved with you, she's not really available for another guy. So, in effect you're hurting someone you don't even know, by preventing him from being able to meet and develop a relationship with one of your partners, because you're not content to have just one, you have to have more than one. Talk about selfish!

I said: Wouldn't it also be a fair statement to say that the morality which shows itself to be the highest one should be the one to be followed?

You said:I'll buy that. Who gets to judge?

What judge would you accept?

[chasio649]

yes...you certainly are!

[nobdysfool]

yes...you certainly are! (brainwashed)

You are, too....you just don't know it.

I'm brainwashed by the Word of God, and blood-washed by the Blood of His Son, Jesus.

[Artist]

"You are no freak. I salute your stand."

Thanks, sauropod. It was nice of you to say that.

[strela]

Incredible. 500-plus posts on a news story about a guy who doesn't want to have sex until he's ready to do so. How many posts would it be if the story was about a guy nailing every carbon-based life form with an XX chromosome pattern within a 5-mile radius?

[Stone Mountain]

Do each of your "partners" know you're sharing yourself with others?

Actually, I'm serially monogamous and have been for quite some time. I have never lied or omitted information about my dating practices to my partners.

Obviously you've decided on an arrangement that you feel works for you, and even if you're all willing and informed, it still doesn't make it right. For you to say so is nothing but situational ethics. Saying that the situation determines its own morality is in effect saying tht there is no absolute standard of right and wrong.

I don't believe that these statements are true. I believe that any of us should be allowed to decide what risks we choose to take for ourselves. I realize that many may disagree with me, but I believe that as free people, we should be allowed to decide what is and isn't best for oneself. Anyone that I impact by my decisions should also have the option of deciding if that is the best thing for them. Informed consent.

Our laws aren't based on that concept. If they were, there could not really be any laws. Think about it.

I have thought about it. This was my point in talking about the Golden Rule. This is a rule about morality that virtually every civilized society has agreed with. That, to me, is about as absolute as a standard as one can get.

Call it a prejudice of mine if you want, but by the standard I am trying to uphold, your actions cause harm to others, whether you know it or not, or whether they admit it or not. You are using them for your own gratification, and they may very well be using you for the same reason.

I believe that everyone should be allowed to take these risks as according to their own personal preference. I may be causing people harm; they may be causing me harm; we all know the risks and we choose to accept them.

And maybe you haven't considered this, but if you're bedding two or more females, you have made it that much harder for at least one other guy to find the woman that he could be happy with, and maybe even marry. Why? Because if she's involved with you, she's not really available for another guy. So, in effect you're hurting someone you don't even know, by preventing him from being able to meet and develop a relationship with one of your partners, because you're not content to have just one, you have to have more than one. Talk about selfish!

Well, I have almost never done anything like this in my life. I tend to be with one woman at a time. But, I don't buy this argument anyway. If I was sleeing with more than one woman, any of those women would be free to meet anyone they choose to. I certainly wouldn't hold those women to a higher standard than I would hold myself and certainly wouldn't prevent them from meeting and developing a relationship with someone else.

You still haven't explained why you think that any love I would have for a woman would be shallow. You said it isn't based on the fact that I have engaged in pre-marital sex. What is is based on?

Can you at least accept that you were wrong when you described my actions as a "self-centered exercise in self-gratification, with only passing thought given to the effects of that action on another or others." Whether or not you agree with my conclusions, you have to at least admit that I have given quite a bit of thought as to the effects of my actions on others. Just because I disagree with your conclusions doesn't mean that I haven't thought about it, right?

What judge would you accept [for morality]?

A difficult question. The fact that basically all civilizations have agreed on forms of the Golden Rule swayed me into believing that it was a good moral law. I'm not sure what else would off hand...

[Howlin]

How many posts would it be if the story was about a guy nailing every carbon-based life form with an XX chromosome pattern within a 5-mile radius?

Look here

[hchutch]

LOL!

Nice reponse...

[strela]

LOLOLOL ...

[Mr. Mojo]

Celibate until 33? The dude is either completely devoid of testosterone or he's a fruit. If you want to stay celibate until marriage, I can understand that. ....But if you're going be celibate and you're not married by the time you're 25, something's not kosher.