Iraqi trailers were not mobile WMD labs

spacewar ^ | Jun 15, 2003 | AFP, London

[se99tp]

Iraqi trailers were not mobile WMD labs: report

A British scientist and biological weapons expert, who examined the trailers in Iraq, told the Observer: "They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories.
"You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what
the Iraqis said they were -- facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons."

Blair has for weeks been forced to defend himself against allegations by the media that his office
embellished intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction to beef up the case for war.

Last week he said he would not appear before a parliamentary foreign affairs committee probing the
claims, but confirmed he would cooperate with a separate inquiry by parliament's joint intelligence and
security committee -- which meets behind closed doors, and whose reports are subject to censorship by Downing Street.

[se99tp]

That is suspicious. I think Russian have someting to say on Iraqi WMD as well as Germans.

[Helms]

Ah yes, they we devices to male balloons for real estate agents selling property in Iraq.

By the way, was there not Al Queda in Iraq? Mer thinks so and was prima fascia evidence for war.

[_Jim]

"You could not use them for making biological weapons."

Hmmm ... he didn't say however:

    "You could not use them for making CHEMICAL weapons."

[Dutch Boy]

Then have that scientist make hydrogen using that equipment. My guess is that he can't. If we found a completed nuke warhead there will be people convinced it's something else.

[Helms]

Ah yes, they were devices to make balloons for real estate agents selling property in Iraq.

[_Jim]

facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons

... sure, I've seen these kinds of 'trucks' in shopping centers, the parking lots of malls and county fairs all across America filling balloons for kids ... NOT!

[William McKinley]

Here we go again.

If these units were used to produce hydrogen, we would know by now. Hydrogen permeates everything. The walls of the vessels and pipes would be saturated with hydrogen if they were used for hydrogen production. And no amount of scrubbing would remove it.

Take a bit of the metal from the piping or tanks. Melt it under a vacuum. If it was used in hydrogen processing, you will get hydrogen offgassing.

I imagine a discussion like this:

Analyst 1: It was a weapons lab. The hydrogen excuse doesn't work, because the metals in the vehicle show no sign of being exposed to hydrogen for any period of time.

Analyst 2: They show no sign of being exposed to biological agents either. Besides, one of the two we have in hand was obviously just constructed, and may not even have been finished. It is possible that these were constructed for the processing of hydrogen for weather balloons, but not yet used.

Analyst 1: That is possible, but it is so unlikely as to defy credulity. The Iraqis did not say they were building these vehicles to process hydrogen, they said that the vehicles they had were used to produce hydrogen for weather balloons. So by their own words, they had been using such vehicles. Where are the vehicles they were using for the purpose of gassing up weather balloons? Why have we not found any of these vehicles showing permeation of the vessels with hydrogen?

Analyst 2: I don't know, but I object to jumping to a conclusion because we have not found counter evidence. I concede we have found no evidence to support the claim they were used to produce hydrogen. But we have found no evidence to support the claim they were used to produce bioweapons.

Analyst 1: The difference is, they have an interest in hiding the vehicles from inspection if they were used for weaponry. No such interest exists if they were used for hydrogen processing. They clearly were not open to letting us inspect the vehicles (and accounting for all of them) prior to the war. And we still have not found any that were used for hydrogen processing. If they were telling the truth, they would be there for us to find. The only explanation that makes sense is that they had them, they were used for evil purposes, and then they either hid them or destroyed them.

Analyst 2: But that isn't the only possibility. As bizarre as it sounds, they may have had them for benign purposes and on principle hid them from us.

My mindset is along that of my fictional analyst 1.

[alloysteel]

And the hydrogen-filled balloons had what purpose.......?

Oh. They were to be released by thousands of happy Iraqi children at Saddam's birthday celebration.

How sweet.

[Radix]

It sure would be nice having a balloon in order to get a better look at this Real Estate.

 

[William McKinley]

If they were used for hydrogen processing, it would be provable. Melt some of the metal from the vessels under a vacuum. If it was used in hydrogen processing, you will get hydrogen- hydrogen permeates everything and would saturate the vessel walls.

So if these were hydrogen processors, we would know it.

And if someone wants to argue that they were built to process hydrogen but hadn't been used yet, I then ask 1) where are the others then, that were already used, 2) why were the found trailers scrubbed clean, 3) why were these trailers hidden (one buried even), 4) why would they use the dangerous-to-process-and-store hydrogen instead of helium, and 5) why would they make a mobile hydrogen lab instead of just producing it in a building and filling cylinders?

[VadeRetro]

Hydrogen balloons? Hasn't been done much since the Hindenburg.

[ExSES]

Looked like mobile breweries to me! Saddam was known to be deeply concerned that rural resident of the country often had to put up with "flat" beer!

[AntiGuv]

The walls of the vessels and pipes would be saturated with hydrogen if they were used for hydrogen production.

How do you know they're not? Just curious..

[_Jim]

facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons

Supply me with a model number and manufacturer of this equipment then - and I'll verify this with a quick web search ...

Something like this:

Hydrogen Plant Products

The Steam Reforming Process

The most common method of "on-purpose" hydrogen production is the steam reforming process. The main process step involves the reaction of steam with a hydrocarbon over a catalyst at around 750-8000C (1380-1470ºF) to form hydrogen and carbon oxides.

[AntiGuv]

As I recall from another article, the allegation is that they were imported from Britain in 1989. Perhaps someone else could track down further details, such as potential British manufacturers.

[William McKinley]

Because if they were, we would know it already.

But I'll play along with the cynics who would intimate that there is a coverup going on. I'll suspend credulity and imagine that the coverup keeps everyone who has done those specific tests (or prevented those tests from being conducted) completely silent while letting other scientists, like this guy, have free rein.

The questions that come to mind then are as follows:

1) Why isn't this guy suggesting they test the vessels to see if there is hydrogen permeation?

2) Why were the vehicles hidden?

3) Why were the vehicles scrubbed down if they were merely hydrogen plants?

4) why would they use the dangerous-to-process-and-store hydrogen instead of helium for their balloons?

5) why would they make a mobile hydrogen lab instead of just producing it in a building and filling cylinders?

6) Why the convoluted design inside the vehicle? A very simple design would be a loop with a tank, a magnesium bed and a metal bellows pump. Prime the tank with some gas (helium if you have no hydrogen), then water into the tank. Then turn on the pump so that gas is being pumped out of the tank, through the magnesium bed, and back into the tank. The water will want to keep a partial pressure in the gas of about 20 torr, which means that water vapor will keep reaching the magnesium bed as the gas flows. The magnesium bed cracks the water, giving off hydrogen and increasing the pressure in the loop. When the pressure builds sufficiently, bleed off some of the pressure to a collection vessel (or pump it into cylinders).

Since these questions have not been answered satisfactorily, I can only assume that the hydrogen story is hogwash, and there is no coverup of hydrogen presence in the metal of the vessels.

[William McKinley]

(Forgot to mention heating the magnesium bed)

[skinner]

Steaming Pile Alert

[William McKinley]

Something like that would be needlessly complex for use in balloons. For balloons, you don't need the same level of purity that you need for other applications. You merely need the gas to be sufficiently less dense than air.

The complexity of these vehicles argues strongly against their use for producing balloon gas.

[section9]

Thanks Bill, for that response. I knew that the lefties in Britain were barking up the wrong tree the minute you posted that thing about Hydrogen permeation. Thanks for reiterating it.

Be Seeing You,

Chris