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To: pabianice
Being from Massachusetts, I can tell you that the DSS are a bunch of Nazis. A pox on all of them. There are many other situations over the years that the DSS has botched besides this one.

I support home-schooling and indeed, a neighbor of mine home schools her children. I think it's great when it can be arranged. However, I must say that I see nothing wrong with periodic testing (similar to what children in school receive) to ensure that the children are actually being taught something.

The family in question here appears to be a decent family. But what if the situation was different. What if it was a unwed mother on welfare who purported to "teach her kids at home" but instead sat on her ass watching soap operas and game shows all day while she let her kids run wild? Would Freepers have a problem with that or would they say that the welfare mom has a right to not educate her kids, ensuring that they amount to nothing in society (like her).

I think as a society, we owe it to ensure that our children receive a good education and a fighting chance to lead a productive and worthwhile life. Most of the time, the family ensures that they do. But certainly there are unfit parents out there who do not attend to the educational needs of their children (not talking about the family mentioned here).

Is the annual testing of home-school children such a bad thing? I'm not convinced that it is. I think it's a good measuring stick with which to compare against children who attend public school. In fact, I would venture to say that the average home-schooled child would perform better on average than the public-schooled pupil.

That being the case, I am certainly against the gestapo tactics being used here by the DSS. The DSS witch who said "your children belong to us and we can do what we want with them" deserves a smack in the jaw.

77 posted on 06/13/2003 1:14:32 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Back in boot camp! 268 (-32))
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To: SamAdams76
Sam, she deserves to be sued for malfeasance, possibly malpractice. The law , however, gives her immunity from all that, so she is not accountable to anyone. Hence, her taunt. Part of the fix ffor these socialist thugs is to repeal their immune status. The other part is to take the funding away from CPS.
87 posted on 06/13/2003 1:22:37 PM PDT by ladysusan (Social wreckers, not social workers)
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To: SamAdams76
Sam, Your scenario--welfare tramp watching soaps while kids run wild--simply does not exist where parents homeschool. It is opposed to the nature of the thing, which is this:

No neglectful parent wants to have his/her pestiferous kids underfoot unless absolutely necessary. As soon as is possible, these types pack their kids off and away.

Nope...never seen that one....but heard that very argumant lots of times from social workers, state reps, and others. No there, there.

88 posted on 06/13/2003 1:22:40 PM PDT by dasboot (Everything that should be up, is up.)
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To: SamAdams76
The family in question here appears to be a decent family. But what if the situation was different. What if it was a unwed mother on welfare who purported to "teach her kids at home" but instead sat on her ass watching soap operas and game shows all day while she let her kids run wild? Would Freepers have a problem with that or would they say that the welfare mom has a right to not educate her kids, ensuring that they amount to nothing in society (like her).

My guess is that the average welfare queen would not want the kids around to interrupt her TV viewing. The local subpar school makes a wonderful babysitter. Say these children were given this test and failed, what is the next step? If are taken out of the home and put into the local public school where they fail the same test what happens? Nothing happens and the tenured teachers continue to get their salaries.

108 posted on 06/13/2003 1:42:53 PM PDT by CaptainK
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To: SamAdams76
So where do you draw the line to the parent's rights? The taxpayers rights? Children are the responsbility of the parent, not the state. Are some homeschoolers going to fall through the cracks? YES.

But, when did it become our country's creed to always play to the lowest common denominator? Millions of students at public schools fall through the cracks. What have we done to stop that ?

Millions of children who attend public school were raised by day care workers... what have we done about that? We let it be the parent's choice.. we don't test infants to make sure they are being raised with love and understanding , a needed foundation for high IQ, not yet anyway.

118 posted on 06/13/2003 1:57:16 PM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: SamAdams76
The DSS witch who said "your children belong to us and we can do what we want with them" deserves a smack in the jaw.

And if a parent had tried to do so, with the police standing by, they would have been arrested and the kids taken. Which would have been the whole idea. I think the DDS witch's remark was a deliberate provokation

The power of the State is limited to punishing those who break a law. So the trick is to provoke or lead one into breaking a law, so that the State will then have power over you.

As far as taking the test: different homeschool families have different ways of educating kids. With my middle kid, who is in 3rd grade, my decision was to concentrate on her reading level in the first three grades. She's currently testing as reading at close to 8th grade level. She's behind in other areas, but in my opinion will quickly catch up now that she's able to read well.

165 posted on 06/13/2003 3:04:44 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer looking for next gig)
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To: SamAdams76
The DSS witch who said "your children belong to us and we can do what we want with them" deserves more than a smack in the jaw.
175 posted on 06/13/2003 3:25:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you hear: especially *** ones)
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To: SamAdams76
I think as a society, we owe it to ensure that our children receive a good education and a fighting chance to lead a productive and worthwhile life.

I love ya, man, but you are way off on this.

The Republic was formed by folks who assumed that families could be entrusted with management with their own affairs, including education. Of course, today we are about a billion light years removed from such an idea.

However, some of us actually hold on to that ideal and are willing to pay the price.

Compulsory public education in this country was modeled off the "Prussian system."

Do a web search on John Taylor Gatto for details.

210 posted on 06/13/2003 4:26:22 PM PDT by don-o
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To: SamAdams76
Is the annual testing of home-school children such a bad thing? I'm not convinced that it is. I think it's a good measuring stick with which to compare against children who attend public school. In fact, I would venture to say that the average home-schooled child would perform better on average than the public-schooled pupil.

With Regards to a child taking tests for measuring progress, I say, NO. I home school my 13 year old son. I NEVER in my life suspected I would do this. But, when 11, he was under such stress (an A & B student) to PREPARE for the state testing, he became severely depressed and was suicidal (sp). Being hospitalized for a week with only an hour visit a day - made me realize he could not be placed in a "slot"... So, I homeschool. My education in public schools (I'm 51) provided quite a solid foundation. There are so MANY aids available (internet, cirriculum, assoications, etc) now. I see absolutely NO need to place my child in compitition just for the sake of measuring him by THEIR standards. I keep ALL his work, keep daily log of what we cover, and have a work plan. I am confident, that when it's time to attend college, he will be accepted at the school of his choice. He's smart, and he has the time each day to think, explore and improve.
With Respect,
Yellow Roses
233 posted on 06/13/2003 6:09:34 PM PDT by yellowroses (a Yankee in Texas, prayers to our brave military and their families)
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To: SamAdams76
"I think as a society, we owe it to ensure that our children receive a good education and a fighting chance to lead a productive and worthwhile life."

Stay away from me, you liberal cretin. It's clear where you're going with this socialism.
258 posted on 06/13/2003 8:29:07 PM PDT by WriteOn
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To: SamAdams76
However, I must say that I see nothing wrong with periodic testing (similar to what children in school receive) to ensure that the children are actually being taught something.

You mention that maybe welfare mothers would sit around watching TV while their kids run around uneducated. I venture to say that welfare mothers who want to watch TV like nothing better than to shunt their kids off to school so they can enjoy the TV without kids screaming. I have known many homeschooling families and it is very hard work. Much "easier" to have them gone all day.

Virtually all homeschooled children are much better educated than those at the gov't schools. The testing thing is intrusive and Nazi-like. Just let the kids pass a test at the end of high school for graduation, that's enough.

270 posted on 06/13/2003 9:38:55 PM PDT by First Amendment
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To: SamAdams76
Is the annual testing of home-school children such a bad thing?

Yes, because the agenda of the State can be rolled into the testing.

280 posted on 06/13/2003 10:09:54 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: SamAdams76; Lady Eileen; All
I must say that I see nothing wrong with periodic testing (similar to what children in school receive) to ensure that the children are actually being taught something....I think it's a good measuring stick with which to compare against children who attend public school. In fact, I would venture to say that the average home-schooled child would perform better on average than the public-schooled pupil.

That being the case, I am certainly against the gestapo tactics being used here by the DSS.

The Left pretends the controversy is a matter of testing v. no testing, with those favoring testing on the side of the angels. But of course that's not so. The issue is who -- parents or busybody social workers -- gets to pick which test and when.

That's important, because the _ultimate_ underlying issue is which government -- family or state -- has final authority over children.

Trying to split the difference on the issue is like saying: "The state may have its taxes as long as there are no audits." In the real world, of course, you don't get one without the other.

309 posted on 06/14/2003 5:19:31 AM PDT by Law
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