Posted on 06/11/2003 5:54:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - The Iowa Supreme Court on Wednesday revived a defamation lawsuit brought by a woman who was offended when a church official wrote a letter warning that "the spirit of Satan" was at work in her congregation.
The seven-member court unanimously said that it was extremely reluctant to intervene in internal church disputes, but that in this case the letter had been circulated outside the congregation, and a trial is needed to resolve the matter.
A lower court had thrown out the case.
The case involves a Methodist church in Shell Rock and an internal dispute that drew the attention of church officials. The Rev. Jerrold Swinton, then a district supervisor for the Iowa Conference of the United Methodist Church, attended services at the church and heard comments about the dispute, which centered on differing views about the church pastor.
Court records said that Jane Kliebenstein, a church member, made comments to him during the visit that prompted a letter he sent to the congregation.
"Folks, when is enough, enough?" he wrote. "When will you stop the blaming, negative and unhappy persons among you from tearing down the spirit of Jesus Christ among you?"
His letter also called on members of the congregation to acknowledge that "the spirit of Satan" was at work in the church.
The letter did not specifically mention Ms. Kliebenstein, but she and her husband sued the church and the Iowa Conference, seeking unspecified damages.
The high court said that judges clearly cannot interfere in matters of faith and internal church discipline. But in this case, the court said, "The fact that Swinton's communication about Jane was published outside the congregation weakens the shield."
The church had also argued that issues of faith such as the existence of Satan are beyond the purview of the courts.
But the high court said: "Perusing a standard dictionary convinces us that the term used by church officials to describe Jane Kliebenstein has religious roots but also carries a common and largely unflattering secular meaning. We conclude from these definitions that the phrase `spirit of Satan' has meaning in a secular as well as sectarian context."
Just wait until they playback the tape of KKK Byrd using the 'N' word on national television. They're gonna be REALLY pissed.
(Say, shouldn't that be a hate crime?)
His letter also called on members of the congregation to acknowledge that "the spirit of Satan" was at work in the church.
The fact that this woman is suing another member of the church is evidence "that the spirit of Satan" is indeed at work.
Paul admonishes believers not to take other believers to court....
Nice catch..
"Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."
Check out this thread about contemporary services. What's your opinion (backed by Scripture, of course)? ;O).
The Pro's: Well, he who isn't against me is with me. If this is truly beneficial, then I am all for it.
A work friend of my mothers has a church that rents buildings and moves about to keep things diverse. They are mostly confrence rooms and the like, but they say that the "church" is not a building at all. The building itself is completely unimportant.. And I agree with that pov.
It seems to work for them and as such, I am all for it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So, no problem.
The Cons: I don't want to see worship "commercialized" I really don't.
I am leary of a "Christian demographic" being sought for ventures like this and before I made a commitment I would want to be sure that there was good, scriptural educating happening here, as opposed to a lightshow and loud music.
I am concerned about "professional" ministers who's bottom line is written in green, as opposed to black and white.
Example: I mean, hey.. You want to actually hire a minister for your theater in San Fran, but the market doesn't appreciate God's position on homosexuality.. Then just tone down that part so we can make our comp sales goal for this quarter.
That kind of thing bothers me..
Also, as a personal preference.. I like a gathering of "good ole boys"
Country churches are my favorite. Small, white buildings on gravel roads in the middle of nowhere suit me fine.
There are rules of conduct, and in fact this very "lawsuit" scenario is warned against.
It's just not acceptable and these people should know this.
Freebilly caught it right off, I wish the parties involved were privy to his knowledge and would just stop this kind of nonsense.
If for no other reason than it makes us all look like fools by extention..
To win this suit the plaintiff must prove that the allegation made by the defendant is false.
So it's up to the woman to convince a jury that the spirit of Satan was not at work in her congregation. A tall order, given what is presently transpiring.
To make a long story short, notwithstanding first amendment arguments, the trial court ruled that the church could not follow the scripture when dealing with its own members when that scripture may conflict with simple common law tort law in which the government has an interest in promoting. Such a ruling basically means that no longer can a church offer counseling, etc. unless it meets the same standards as secular counselors, which will never happen, since a church counselor relies upon belief in miracles, healings, and the resurrection of Christ in his counseling.
In my research for this case, I found that more and more jurisdictions are holding churches to the secular standards of care for counseling, demotion, promotion, defamation, discipline, etc., and ignoring the biblical precepts to which the church authorities are bound. In short, the government of the United States is taking over the church through the courts.
Sounds like the Kliebensteins exposed themselves for what they are.
II Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
I Peter 5:8 also comes to mind.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.
Yes, and the sheeple are asleep.
We may yet in our lifetime see the need for an "underground church" in our beloved republic.
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