Do you support President Bush's "roadmap" for peace in the middle east? - Vanity

Right column here on FR | 11 Jun 03 | ??

[TLBSHOW]

I don't support trash!

[RightWhale]

Hamas and their supporters want to make sure that never can happen by derailing the peace process right now.

The terrorists don't have that power in themselves, it's an illusion. Stopping the terrorists doesn't necessarily have to be the sticking point, it just seems to be. Palestine could have been a recognized country in its own right long ago, and still could be tomorrow, terrorists or not. Just leave that precondition off it and proceed as if something positive will result.

[TheBattman]

Bush is so far wrong on this issue that it is sickening. Any plan that calls for Israel to surrender any more of it's own land to try to buy peace with a bunch of terrorists is just plain immoral.

[Weimdog]

The "Road Map" can only be implemented AFTER every member of Hamas, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, and Arafat himself are dead. Until then it will be business as usual. Only a fool believes otherwise.

[CyberCowboy777]

No map needed for my peace plan.

GPS works just fine, very accurate.

[Jeremiah Jr]

This is the road to...

The road to hell (part two)

Well I'm standing by the river
But the water doesn't flow
It boils with every poison you can think of
And I'm underneath the streetlight
But the light of joy I know
Scared beyond belief way down in the shadows
And the perverted fear of violence
Chokes the smile on every face
And common sense is ringing out the bell

This ain't no technological breakdown
Oh no, this is the road to hell

And all the roads jam up with credit
And there's nothing you can do
It's all just pieces of paper flying away from you
Oh look out world, take a good look
What comes down here
You must learn this lesson fast and learn it well
This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway

Oh no, this is the road
Said this is the road
This is the road to hell

Chris Rea

[DoughtyOne]

If anyone has been following the debate (sometimes heated) that I've been involved in on another thread, they might be surprised that I support Bush's Road map as far as that goes.  The sad reality is the Road map involves many detours.  I'm sure that is no surprise to our President.

As long as terrorist groups target Israel, Israel will have to act defensively, preemptively and violently to quell as much of the violence directed at it, that it can.  To the extent that Abu Mazen understands this and continues to seek peace with Israel, peace efforts will make slow advancement.  But if Mazen rejects Israel's need to combat terrorism, the Road map is history.

IMO our President must change part of his reactions to middle eastern violence.  If he doesn't Israel is doomed in the long run.  Here's what influences my thoughts on this.

There has been a political strategy to reinforce the United States seeming neutrality for decades.  This has resulted in the United States often remaining silent when terrorist attacks occur, then openly criticizing Israel stridently when it reacts, with only a few words of condemnation of terrorism thrown in for good measure.  While I understand this strategy, I see it as self defeatist in the extreme.

We marvel that Europe and most of the advanced nations seem to be turning against Israel.  Why?

Who speaks out clearing defining why Israel has a right to exist as well as defend itself?  Who speaks out explaining why terrorist attacks targeting women and children are different than retaliations that target specific terrorists and their leaders?  Just who is Israel's vocal advocate on the world stage?

Many of you will state the United States is.  I beg to differ.  In almost every instance where Israel is attacked and it responds we damn Israel for doing so.  Look, I understand why we do so, but the fact is who will see the validity of Israel's reactions, if absolutely nobody on the world stage says, "I understand Israel.  I back you 100%", and explains why?

In addition to this, who attempts to clarify the western view of the Palestinians current mindset?  Who seeks to explain that the Palestinians could have been their own state since 1948?  Who explains that it has been their own stiff-necked intransigence that has left them with no commerce, no hope for the future and no economic infrastructure with which to facilitate a bright future for their children?

Folks, if the United States isn't going to do this, who do we expect to do so?  And if we don't and nobody else does, why should we expect anyone to understand Israel's plight?  And if nobody understands Israel's plight, who will back her?  Good Lord, we have essentially facilitated a vacuum over the last thirty years in which Israel's rights and goals have seldom if ever been championed on the world stage.  Too many times, this same situation has been replicated by conservatives concerning their own domestic agenda, for domestic consumption.  Who will champion if we continue to ride on the go-along to get along merry-go-round?

Folks, Israel has fewer and fewer supporters because very few people hear their views defended by their "supposed" best friend.  The world's informed populace is instead spoon-fed the propaganda from the other side, in a vacuum.  Thus the world's informed populace cannot be condemned for saying to themselves, "Look, even their strongest ally doesn't defend them on the world stage.  Obviously even they can't stomach Israel's positions."  Is that a situation we should foster?

Now, the same problem rears it's ugly head when terrorist or terrorist sympathizers consider targeting Israel.  Because we couch our words, the two groups are able to convince themselves more easily that Israel is losing support, and that even their number one ally is as sympathetic to terrorists as they are to Israel.  It gets worse than this.  When terrorists consider their courses of action, they see that their acts are not condemned stridently by the US.  Instead they see Israel taken to task for responding.  In this climate, with this mindset, why would the terrorists possibly change their ways?  A glimmer of success feeds these people.  That glimmer should have the door slammed on it in no uncertain terms, in black and white, and often!

If this doesn't happen, the terrorists are enabled to feed into this when interviewed by western media.  Thus more people hear their message in the reinforced vacuum I mentioned earlier.

Folks, if we do not change our ways Israel is simply going to cease to have any support, even among our own nation.  There is a growing camp here who damns them equally with the terrorists.  There's little question in my mind why.

The US must begin to softly yet stridently explain why Israel exists.  It must explain that a Palestinian state should exist, but that it could have since 1948 if only the Palestinians had chosen to accept statehood.  The US must also in no unequivocal terms define why targeting terrorists is different than targeting women and children on buses, in plazas and coffee shops.

At the same time, I have no problem at all  with devising a carrot and stick approach to this issue.  Contacting Europe, Russia, other middle eastern states, the US should propose a financial package that would see the Palestinians almost instantly successful upon acceptance of a peace agreement.  It should see Israel as well rewarded for it's participation in political and economic cooperation with an emerging Palestinian state.

While this seem elemental to many of you I'm sure, the fact is that spin is a necessary and effective reality.  We must spin for Israel.  Of course that's only if we truly value the existence of it.

[RightWhale]

This is the road to hell

Don't need a road for that; you can get there from anywhere.

[ApesForEvolution]

Current FReepoll results:

Question ...

Do you support President Bush's "roadmap" for peace in the middle east?

Yes
65 votes - 32%

No
94 votes - 47%

Undecided
39 votes - 19%

198 votes total; you voted "No"

[ApesForEvolution]

If Bush could recognize the road and the fact that the Palis are nowhere near it, then maybe a map would be of matter...

[microgood]

Do you support President Bush's "roadmap" for peace in the middle east?

No way will it work. Israel needs to play hardball and ignore the world. The first thing I would do is not allow the bodies of the dead terrorists to go back to the Palestinians. They would be buried in pig feces/entrails in an undisclosed location.

[Reagan Man]

>>>Do you support President Bush's "roadmap" for peace in the middle east?

Yes.

It is a calculated short term risk for PresBush to be undertaking this "Road Map For Peace". Bush places not only his own credibility and politcal capital on the line, but the prestige of the USA. There's no alternative at this point. Unless all out war is somehow considered a rational option by rational people. In my opinion, all out war is not a rational option. The Israeli people understand this too and want a lasting peace.

PM Sharon signed onto PresBushes peace process, as did the new Pali representative, Abu Mazen. That was just last week. The choice is simple. Do you support killings on both sides to continue, or do you work for a lasting peace?

[Weimdog]

Talking Heads
Once in a Lifetime (1984)
Road To Nowhere

WELL WE KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOIN'
BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'VE BEEN
AND WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE KNOWIN'
BUT WE CAN'T SAY WHAT WE'VE SEEN
AND WE'RE NOT LITTLE CHILDREN
AND WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT
AND THE FUTURE IS CERTAIN
GIVE US TIME TO WORK IT OUT

We're on a road to nowhere
Come on inside
Takin' that ride to nowhere
We'll take that ride

I'm feelin' okay this mornin'
And you know,
We're on the road to paradise
Here we go, here we go

CHORUS

Maybe you wonder where you are
I don't care
Here is where time is on our side
Take you there...take you there

We're on a road to nowhere
We're on a road to nowhere
We're on a road to nowhere

There's a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
and it's all right, baby, it's all right

And it's very far away
But it's growing day by day
And it's all right, baby, it's all right

They can tell you what to do
But they'll make a fool of you
And it's all right, baby, it's all right

We're on a road to nowhere

[ApesForEvolution]

What has every *SINGLE* Israeli concession to the Palis resulted in? More terrorism and death.

Every *SINGLE* time.

As Rantisi stated (yet again) - "..we will not put down arms until every single Jew is gone..".

So, yes, a lasting peace will come when the terrorists are all dead, their supporters find no flavor in supporting it any longer and a real negotiation can begin.

[Tamzee]

"We are reasonable and calm persons"

Yes, but you forgot to hang the sign on the door that stops non-reasonable and non-calm persons from entering later ;-)

[Reagan Man]

Okay. You take the irrational (and emotional) side of this issue.

So be it.

[ladyinred]

I do like your superhighway to peace Jeff. If only..sigh.

[DoughtyOne]

Not only that, Israel signed onto a mutual agreement designed to facilitate peace. It did not sign onto a suicide pact.

[Dog Gone]

There is only one country on the planet who can broker a peace agreement between the Palestinians and Israel. That is us, of course.

Just as there are many crazy Palestinians who don't want a peace agreement, there are many crazy Israelis who don't want one either.

There is absolutely no way to broker a peace agreement there without making some folks on either side (or their supporters) extremely unhappy.

The alternative, of course, is more of the same thing that we've had for about 50 years, except that we can expect the weapons to be used to be far more deadly.

Relocation and annexation would not solve the problem. It would move the borders, but the conflict would continue.

Genocide would work, but it would probably be more effective if the arabs did it. Israel can not do it without being the world's biggest hypocrites. It's not an attractive option, and it's not really feasible, and hardly worth mentioning.

The only other alternative, and one that most reasonable people would support, is a peace agreement which resolves the land issues. The only way to do that is to grab Israel and the PA by the scruff of their neck and force them to negotiate until both of the leaders go back to their people and both say, "This is the best we can do."

That is the role the US must play if we're going to end this cycle of violence.

[DoughtyOne]

Hmmm, rational or emotional? I'll go with rational myself. Your comments are accurate and on target. I did see some emotion demonstrated around here somewhere though.