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AP Tallies 3,240 Civilian Deaths in Iraq (smear campaign alert)
Yahoo! News ^ | June 10, 2003 | NIKO PRICE

Posted on 06/10/2003 3:10:00 PM PDT by El Conservador

BAGHDAD, Iraq - At least 3,240 civilians died across Iraq (news - web sites) during a month of war, including 1,896 in Baghdad, according to a five-week Associated Press investigation.

The count is still fragmentary, and the complete toll — if it is ever tallied — is sure to be significantly higher.

Several surveys have looked at civilian casualties within Baghdad, but the AP tally is the first attempt to gauge the scale of such deaths from one end of the country to the other, from Mosul in the north to Basra in the south.

The AP count was based on records from 60 of Iraq's 124 hospitals — including almost all of the large ones — and covers the period between March 20, when the war began, and April 20, when fighting was dying down and coalition forces announced they would soon declare major combat over. AP journalists traveled to all of these hospitals, studying their logs, examining death certificates where available and interviewing officials about what they witnessed.

Many of the other 64 hospitals are in small towns and were not visited because they are in dangerous or inaccessible areas. Some hospitals that were visited had incomplete or war-damaged casualty records.

Even if hospital records were complete, they would not tell the full story. Many of the dead were never taken to hospitals, either buried quickly by their families in accordance with Islamic custom, or lost under rubble.

The AP excluded all counts done by hospitals whose written records did not distinguish between civilian and military dead, which means hundreds, possibly thousands, of victims in Iraq's largest cities and most intense battles aren't reflected in the total.

During the first weeks of the war, the Iraqi government made its own attempt to keep track of civilian deaths, but that effort fell apart as U.S. troops neared Baghdad and the government began to topple.

The U.S. military did not count civilian casualties because "our efforts are focused on military tasks," said Lt. Col. Jim Cassella, a Pentagon (news - web sites) spokesman. The British Defense Ministry said it didn't count casualties either.

Cassella said getting an accurate count would have been nearly impossible because of the amount of weaponry used by both sides over wide swaths of a country of 24 million people.

In the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites) an estimated 2,278 civilians were killed, according to Iraqi civil defense authorities. No U.S. or independent count is known to have been made. That war consisted of seven weeks of bombing and 100 hours of ground war, and did not take U.S. forces into any Iraqi cities.

This time it was very different. In a war in which the Iraqi soldiery melted away into crowded cities, changed into plainclothes or wore no uniform to begin with, separating civilian and military casualties is often impossible.

Witnesses say Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s fighters attacked from ambulances and taxis and donned women's chadors or Bedouin robes, creating an atmosphere in which U.S. troops couldn't be sure who their enemy was.

Adding to the civilian toll was the regime's tactic of parking its troops and weapons in residential neighborhoods, creating targets for U.S. bombs that increased the casualties among noncombatants.

And while the great majority of civilian deaths appear to have been caused by American U.S. and British attacks, witnesses say some — even a rough estimate is impossible — were caused by the Iraqis themselves: by exploding Iraqi ammunition stored in residential neighborhoods, by falling Iraqi anti-aircraft rounds aimed at U.S. warplanes, or by Iraqi fire directed at American troops.

The United States said its sophisticated weaponry minimized the toll, and around the country are sites that, to look at them, bolster the claim: missiles that tore deep into government buildings but left the surrounding houses untouched.

"Did the Americans bomb civilians? Yes. But one should be realistic," said Dr. Hameed Hussein al-Aaraji, the new director of Baghdad's al-Kindi Hospital. "Saddam ran a dirty war. He put weapons inside schools, inside mosques. What could they do?"

Among the documents studied by AP journalists was the register at Kadhamiya General Hospital in Baghdad. Someone has taped up the shredded binding, as if that could fix the horrors inside. There are pages bathed in dried, reddish-brown blood, their letters smeared and unintelligible.

It and other registers at hospitals across the country record the names, ages and addresses of patients, the diagnoses and operations, the recoveries, and the deaths. They also list professions: for example, butcher, carpenter, soldier, student, or policeman. The AP investigation had to depend on the accuracy of the hospitals in distinguishing between soldier and civilians as there was no way to verify the records.

Some of the best record-keeping was in Baghdad, where AP journalists visited all 24 hospitals that took in war casualties. Their logs provided a count of 1,896 civilians killed. There were certainly more civilians dead; a few hospitals lost count as fighting intensified.

In some parts of the country, records are more spotty. The three civilian hospitals in Basra, Iraq's second largest city, recorded the deaths of 413 people. But while doctors estimate 85 percent were civilian, they have no evidence, so AP didn't include numbers from Basra in its count.

Some hospitals that began the war keeping records had to stop. The fighting came to them — in some cases, inside their front doors.

Doctors at Nasiriyah's Republic Hospital said seven patients were killed in their beds when a shell hit the building April 7. At Baghdad's Yarmouk Hospital, doctors fled when U.S. tanks shelled a hospital building seized by Iraqi fighters. When they returned five days later, 26 patients were dead.

It will take months or more before anything like a final count emerges. One survey is being done by the advocacy group Human Rights Watch, another by the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, which hopes to win U.S. compensation for victims or their relatives.

Meanwhile, from city to city, block to block, house to house, Iraqis are trying to come to terms with their losses. For many, the personal tragedy is more important than whether the casualty count is 3,000, or double that, or more.

There is little agreement about whether being freed from Saddam's tyranny was worth the cost in lives.

"If they didn't want to kill civilians, why did they fire into civilian areas?" asked Ayad Jassim Ibrahim, a 32-year-old Basra fireman who said his brother Alaa was killed by shrapnel from a U.S. missile that tore into his living room.

Al-Aaraji, at al-Kindi hospital in Baghdad, saw things differently.

"It was a war," he said. "This is the price of liberty."

___

EDITOR'S NOTE: Niko Price is correspondent-at-large for The Associated Press. Contributing to this report were AP writers Sameer N. Yacoub, Bassem Mroue and Charles Hanley in Baghdad, Ellen Knickmeyer in Kut, Tini Tran in Basra, Louis Meixler in northern Iraq and Sharon Crenson and Richard Pyle in New York.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; ap; bodycount; iraq; iraqicasualties; mediabias
OK, let's review:

Quagmire: It failed, war was a rout.

Looting: It's a normal consequence of wars.

Archeological treasures: Been found intact.

Oil: Smear campaign

Islamic state: Just noise.

WMD's: So they can stick it to the U.S. government.

Looks like they're running out of arguments.

1 posted on 06/10/2003 3:10:00 PM PDT by El Conservador
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To: El Conservador
The AP investigation had to depend on the accuracy of the hospitals in distinguishing between soldier and civilians as there was no way to verify the records.

In other words, thugs like Fedayeen Saddam who were killed while dressed as civilians were treated as civilians.

It would be pretty easy to debunk this AP claptrap--all you'd need is the number of young males who were killed. If there's a disproportionate number of 25-year-old men among the "civilian" dead, then it's clear that the count includes military.

2 posted on 06/10/2003 3:15:03 PM PDT by Numbers Guy
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To: El Conservador
I read the headline and assumed it would be about one of Saddam's party nights. I'll go back and read the rest.
3 posted on 06/10/2003 3:15:49 PM PDT by whereasandsoforth
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To: El Conservador
I remember CNN pre-war estimates put at above at least 50,000 civilian casualties. Too bad they couldn't be hired as democrat pollsters.
4 posted on 06/10/2003 3:16:08 PM PDT by kimoajax
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To: Numbers Guy
They either didn't bother counting the military dead, or just left that total out of the article. Easy pickings - I wonder if Jayson Blair should get a by-line for this, or some other kind of credit.
5 posted on 06/10/2003 3:19:52 PM PDT by Bernard
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To: El Conservador
Considering I think the most optimistic civillian casualties expected by naysayers was around 100,000 or more, I'd say this was a success.
6 posted on 06/10/2003 3:22:41 PM PDT by HitmanLV (Who is number 6? You are number 1.)
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To: El Conservador
Sounds good.
Small price to pay for freedom.
Great job US Military.
7 posted on 06/10/2003 3:30:45 PM PDT by VaBthang4 (Could someone show me one [1] Loserdopian elected to the federal government?)
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To: El Conservador
And there were about 3200 dead at WTC and Pentagon on 9/11. Saddam can't be said to have known in advance about it. But he issued statements saying he "supported" Osama, and vice versa.

According to the Bush Doctrine, if a state supports terrorisim (making statements is enough for me) then they're a terrorist.

8 posted on 06/10/2003 3:37:57 PM PDT by narby (I love the smell of Liberal fear in the morning...)
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To: El Conservador
Judging from the fact that a few Saddamites are still around killing US and coalition soldiers by ruses that play upon our well-known goodwill and trust in our fellow man, we haven't killed enough to put the Fear of Bush into them.
9 posted on 06/10/2003 4:56:52 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: El Conservador
That amount that the AP counted was normal killing day for saddam and his murderers. Thank God we got there to stop it.
10 posted on 06/10/2003 4:59:29 PM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: El Conservador
3240 civilians. Please, AP, subtract from this the number those killed in attacks like the one in the marketplace, which was found by satellite photos to have been a car bomb because of the size/shape of the crater.


Oh, yeah. Then there's the little figure of the 100,000 or so that Saddam would have killed that month anyway.

Sheesh.


11 posted on 06/10/2003 10:38:07 PM PDT by lorrainer (Oh, was I ranting? Sorry.....)
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To: firebrand; StarFan; Dutchy; stanz; RaceBannon; Cacique; Clemenza; rmlew; NYC GOP Chick; ...
ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my infrequent ‘general interest’ ping list.

12 posted on 06/10/2003 10:39:20 PM PDT by nutmeg
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To: Numbers Guy
The 19 hijackers on 9-11 were "civillians" too. Doesn't mean that they were not combantants or dangerous.
13 posted on 06/10/2003 11:01:15 PM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS: CNN let human beings be tortured and killed to keep their Baghdad bureau open)
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To: El Conservador
Saw a story today on the morning show that has Harry and the three women. Harry was interviewing a reporterette named Laura (I think) Logan. She has written a book about a girl that she compared, with a solemn face and tone, to Ann Frank. She said that the only difference is that this Iraqi girl has survived along with her diary.

I was expecting to see a story about Saddam's atrocities visited upon some hapless waif. Instead, I was subjected to a piece about a well-dressed, well-to-do 19-year-old who is ticked off at the US, who apparently, judging from the video spends part of her day harrassing US soldiers, and whose father has told her not to trust the Americans.

At the end of the interview the reporterette tells us that the Iraqi woman can go to school only 3 times a week because her university was damaged during the war. Huh? She also tells us that the father is out of work so the woman might have to quit school to support her family. Also, she travels everywhere with three bodyguards.

Let's see:
1) Dad's out of work.
2) They don't trust Americans.
3) Dad, although unemployed, can afford 3 bodyguards to accompany his daughter as she annoys our military.

Gee, do you think Dad is a Ba'ath party bigwig?

I am so disgusted with these lying pieces of clinton and their distortions of the truth on our public airwaves.
14 posted on 06/11/2003 6:12:16 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Bush/Cheney in '04 and Tommy Daschole out the door)
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To: wildbill
..we haven't killed enough to put the Fear of Bush into them.

&&

Good one!
15 posted on 06/11/2003 6:14:39 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Bush/Cheney in '04 and Tommy Daschole out the door)
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To: nutmeg
Disgusting.

See my post #14.
16 posted on 06/11/2003 6:15:40 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Bush/Cheney in '04 and Tommy Daschole out the door)
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